Fredrick day (
talk ·
contribs ·
deleted contribs ·
page moves ·
block user ·
block log)
Seddon69 (
talk ·
contribs ·
deleted contribs ·
page moves ·
block user ·
block log)
Fredrick Dayton (
talk ·
contribs ·
deleted contribs ·
page moves ·
block user ·
block log)
193.35.134.151 (
talk ·
contribs ·
deleted contribs ·
page moves ·
block user ·
block log)
193.35.133.151 (
talk ·
contribs ·
deleted contribs ·
page moves ·
block user ·
block log)
Fredrick Dayz (
talk ·
contribs ·
deleted contribs ·
page moves ·
block user ·
block log)
(and other IP addresses, see
Wikipedia talk:Suspected sock puppets/Fredrick day
Abd ( talk) 16:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC) reply
Attention was drawn to Seddon69 by [1] from an IP suspected to be associated with Fredrick day, acknowledging that it was a "mobile edit from Seddon69," and his response to a query, [2].
193.35.134.151 edits began appearing June 30, 2006 and continued until there were ten edits in October 2006. These edits largely ceased and Seddon69 began editing November 1, 2006, one day after the last edit in this sequence from 193.35.134.151, and made 21 edits on that day, then two edits on December 27, 2006. 193.35.134.151 made 9 more edits through January 17, 2007. Fredrick day then began editing January 21, 2007, very actively. Seddon69 did not reappear until June 2, 2007. Thereafter, sessions of Fredrick day edits alternated with sessions of Seddon 69 edits. 8,287 edits from Seddon69, Fredrick daytime, Fredrick day, and all identified IPs shown on Wikipedia talk:Suspected sock puppets/Fredrick day, were compared. The patterns are consistent with a single user, over thousands of edits and many sessions of edits, and the level of coincidence needed for these accounts to be independent is beyond reason.
Example of session alternation:
Seddon69....... 9:46 16-Oct-07
[3] + 4 edits
Seddon69....... 9:55 16-Oct-07
[4]
Fredrick day.. 10:55 16-Oct-07
[5] + 16 edits
Fredrick day.. 21:00 16-Oct-07
[6]
Seddon69...... 21:07 16-Oct-07
[7] + 5 edits
Seddon69...... 21:45 16-Oct-07
[8]
Fredrick day.. 22:27 16-Oct-07
[9] + 14 edits
Fredrick day... 0:24 17-Oct-07
[10]
or this sequence when Fredrick day was IP vandalizing:
87.113.64.63... 0:25 22-Mar-08
[11] + 1 edit
87.113.64.63... 0:30 22-Mar-08[]
87.115.1.132... 0:37 22-Mar-08[]
87.115.1.132... 0:44 22-Mar-08[]
87.113.8.101... 0:47 22-Mar-08[] + 1 edit
87.113.8.101... 0:50 22-Mar-08[]
87.114.3.85.... 0:54 22-Mar-08[] + 3 edits
87.114.3.85.... 1:07 22-Mar-08[]
87.112.67.165.. 1:30 22-Mar-08[] + 6 edits
87.112.67.165.. 2:07 22-Mar-08[]
87.113.93.118. 12:48 22-Mar-08[] + 2 edits
87.113.93.118. 12:58 22-Mar-08
[12]
Seddon69...... 13:41 22-Mar-08
[13] + 8 edits
Seddon69...... 14:30 22-Mar-08
[14]
87.113.93.118. 18:36 22-Mar-08
[15] + 5 edits
87.113.93.118. 19:42 22-Mar-08
[16]
Seddon69...... 20:10 22-Mar-08
[17] + 11 edits
Seddon69...... 22:29 22-Mar-08
[18]
87.113.93.118. 23:26 22-Mar-08
[19] + 3 edits
87.113.93.118. 23:33 22-Mar-08[]
87.114.141.40.. 0:14 23-Mar-08[] + 9 edits
87.114.141.40.. 1:15 23-Mar-08
[20]
Fredrick day was indef blocked 23 March, 2008, having been found to be vandalizing as an IP editor, see Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Fredrick day. In various edits, he indicated that he had other accounts used for more legitimate purposes, and that he intended to continue IP editing, as he did, provocatively. He showed that he knows how to use an open proxy, among other things, but the bulk of his blatant sock IP edits appear to come from the range 87.112.0.0 - 87.115.255.255 which is PlusNet, Sheffield, UK, with some (including what looks like stable IP) from 193.35.128.0 - 193.35.143.255 is Orange, Bristol, UK, so locations are compatible. -- Abd ( talk)
As to edit content, this appears to be a good hand account (Seddon69), with a bad hand account (Fredrick day), an openly nasty IP editor, and now Fredrick Dayton. There is an accusation that 193.35.134.151 has been used by User:MarkThomas, blocked for sock puppetry, see User:193.35.134.151. I have not investigated this possible connection yet.
I will email the spreadsheet with full data to any checkuser on request-- Abd ( talk) 16:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC) reply
I just received the notice on my talk page regarding this Suspected sock puppets case and so i wanted to respond to this as swiftly as possible. I fully admit editing from the Orange IP but as i have said this is from a mobile phone and is most likely a dynamic IP. I stated it was me who edited so that the edited not be considered vandalism. However i have only used this once and i was not aware of this user until the comment posted from User:Abd. After this comment i will edit this page from my IP address so that you can find out that i edit from BT broadband. Also i will request that someone from IRC makes a copy of the whois from that again to show i edit from BT. I welcome any checkuser that wishes to check my IP address and to compare the IP's. I hope that this can be resolved quickly. Seddon69 ( talk) 18:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC) reply
"Orange, Bristol, UK" - Orange is not a place in Bristol. UK IPs do not geolocate *at all* - I think I live in Manchester according to my current IP, and have been in Aberdeen in the past. Orange is a mobile phone network and provides access to the internet through GPRS/HSDPA edit: and ADSL, see below. It probably uses a very narrow gateway for this.
Mart
inp23 18:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
reply
The evidence seems sketchy to me, perhaps easily explained by coincidence. The IP correlation with that 195.*.*.* is something I feel confident ignoring, as it belongs to a mobile network which isn't at all static and is also (I've just realised! Bloody name changes Freeserve -> Wanadoo -> Orange) an ISP, using dynamic addresses again (from experience..). Plusnet: dynamic again, I believe. Geolocation: Massive pile of fail. Edit patterns: Evidence isn't really compelling. No evidence noted of abuse during !votes etc, or even of similar editing patterns (other than times, easily explained by saying they're in the same timezone). my thoughts, Mart inp23 18:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC) reply
Let's do this a bit at a time.
1) Yes I am Fredrick day - blocked user.
2) I am not and have never been Seddon69, he has never been me.
let's look at the evidence presented by Abd, line by line, hopefully I can convince people we are not one and the same.
However, it did establish that Seddon69 are operating in the same relatively small region. - I have no idea how he has come to this conclusion. Yes we both live in the UK (which explains the fact that we both post at similar times) but the 'relatively small region' is the whole UK. The 193.XX address is the range for the mobile (or cellar) gateway provided by Orange, the largest mobile telecoms provider in the UK - this is used by @12 million users (off the top of my head)! The other problem, as mentioned by Martin is that UK isp generally don't geolocate, so the location given by WHOIS will generally bear no relationship to the location of the edit (and if you don't mind me saying - only a yank would think that Sheffield and bristol are relative!)
As for the "edit patterns", besides the fact that we operate in the same time zone, I cannot find, from looking at edit histories over the last year, of any occasion where our paths have crossed (didn't we used to have a tool that would check the contributions of two accounts for crossover? if so, can someone run it). -- Fredrick Dayton ( talk) 19:13, 14 April 2008 (UTC) reply
Here is what I'd look for: edits to pages of interest to Seddon69 by IP from 87.112-87.115 range. I could eventually find these, if they exist, but I haven't started looking at the complete range. It may, however, be easier for me to find this, unless checkusers have some good tools -- I have no idea what tools are available. Similarly, I'd examine that IP range for other Fd IP or socks. As to the IP that Seddon69 has explained as being a friend's mobile phone, perhaps Fredrick day has been borrowing the same phone? Because three edits from that exact IP are linked to Fredrick day:
20:23, 9 April 2008 User talk:129.174.91.115
[22]
20:37, 8 April 2008 Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-01-13 24 character merging of minor characters
[23] (Mobile edit by seddon69)
15:03, 24 March 2008 Wikipedia talk:Village pump (policy)
[24]
(this edit was made immediately upon revelation that Section 31 was Fredrick day.)
00:44, 3 March 2008 User talk:Fredrick day
[25]
Contrary to what is implied above, this IP shows consistent interest over time in certain articles, it is not dynamic IP, I'd suggest. (It's still possible it is shared in some way.) See Special:Contributions/193.35.133.151, and, in particular, these edits to Kaley Cuoco: [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] These edits come before, between, and after the edits linked to Fredrick day (and the sole one explicitly linked to Seddon69).
I'd like to make it clear that the spreadsheet showing all these accounts together in time sequence is plain as, well, day. If you are looking at each account alone, or only at IP evidence, I'm not surprised it would be murky, because this user is likely to have deliberately used different access for each account (such as multiple wireless networks accessible to him). I think I've laid out enough evidence that someone interested in identifying a sock would see it as a reasonably possible ID; only if I have displayed all I have would it be reasonable to rule it out or consider it weak. But I did a time and article coincidence study of almost 9,000 edits. The sequences above are not necessarily the clearest ones, merely ones I quickly found as interesting. I'm certainly not going to post the whole thing to a Wikipedia page! That's why I've suggested that a checkuser -- or other trusted user -- look at the spreadsheet. If I had found something different I'd have clearly exonerated Seddon69 from the charge that Sarsaparilla made. And if something is wrong with my analysis, I'd really like to know. Otherwise I'll go to my grave believing that I found a sock puppet and nobody wanted to listen.... (I don't know that nobody will listen, this isn't over yet....) Maybe I'll ask Durova.... -- Abd ( talk)
* [Seddon] ([email protected]): Sun, Sex, Sin, Death and Destruction * [Seddon] #wikipedia-en-roads #wikipedia-en * [Seddon] irc.freenode.net : http://freenode.net/ * [Seddon] End of WHOIS list
Result of a whois on Seddon69 through IRC. Seddon has been a user in good standing for quite a while; I find it highly unlikely that he's a sock of a blocked user. — Scott5114 ↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 00:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC) reply
Please see Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Fredrick day (2nd)/Evidence for a wikified spreadsheet, cut down a bit to eliminate unnecessary information. What was cut was long series of edits from only one account, with no intervening edits from another. What I have considered conclusive is the data in this table, in addition to circumstantial evidence mentioned before; if I have erred, I would appreciate correction. I actually hope that I'm wrong, but it appears that Seddon69 was a good hand account, with Fredrick day intended as the bad hand, and with IP edits for the really nasty stuff. I have seen no problem editing from Seddon69, so I have no wonder that there would be editors unhappy with this. What to do about it is an entirely separate issue. This report does not ask for any punitive measures, this is only to establish the fact. -- Abd ( talk) 04:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC) reply
I would like to note that the following edits could not have been made by me. This is due to the fact i was college at these times. I will go even further back through the edit history if necessary but if we are going to throw WP:AGF completely out of the window then tell me what evidence you need and i will get it for you. I have taken into account the time difference between UTC time and the current BST:
Seddon69 ( talk) 19:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC) reply
Ah-ha, I know how we put this one to bed. During January and feb, some of my edits might resolve to hotel networks as I think I did some editing while away for work. Since we have established that Seddon69 has a BT ip, if he posts on the same days then that should finish this one off (unless abd wants to suggest he was booking into hotels, making a couple of edits and then driving home all within a couple of hours). Checkuser should pick them up those odd ip edits in my history during that timeperiod (I'll have to dig out my diary to find the days and it's in the office, I'll have to pick it up tomorrow). -- 87.115.17.90 ( talk) 19:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC) reply