- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was: delete. This is an encyclopedia that depends on collaboration between people, regardless of their views.As such, and especially given the actual use of this template, it is fairly clear (and the consensus agrees) that it is non-useful to the project. Black Kite (talk) 19:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Template:User Akhand Bharat
This userbox has a huge potential to be seen as inflammatory and divisive. Promoting Akhand Bharat could be very well interpreted as supporting extreme Hindu nationalism and irredentism, quite different than simple opposition to the Partition of India and support for Indian reunification. — Sundostund mppria ( talk / contribs) 17:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Keep: Can't understand what is divisive when all it talks about is uniting the divided parts into one. And this is just broad Indian reunification than that of current India, Bangladesh, Pakistan. It is not forced, but is just a thought meant to be (whenever) accomplished peacefully. ShaanSengupta Talk 17:54, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, you are right. The wording that I used in the nomination is too mild and ambiguous. This userbox “is” sending a message that is inflammatory and divisive, period. —
Sundostund
mppria (
talk /
contribs) 16:02, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t know about the actual inflammation and division. But this userbox is associated with a lot of sockpuppetry. There are three nonblocked transcluders, maybe they can explain?
user:Vikepro,
user:Bharatpediahk,
user:Wicontrib4? —
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 20:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Well, that figures. Honestly, I am not even slightly surprised that something like this userbox was created by a sockpuppet account. — Sundostund mppria ( talk / contribs) 01:11, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- 1:Proof I'm not a sockpuppeter:
- I'm the skibidiest ohio genz rizzler of all time
- I use Rammerhead Proxy, Inflopnito, Eaglercraft. (largely US communities)
- I don’t know about the actual inflammation and division. But this userbox is associated with a lot of sockpuppetry. There are three nonblocked transcluders, maybe they can explain?
user:Vikepro,
user:Bharatpediahk,
user:Wicontrib4? —
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 20:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, you are right. The wording that I used in the nomination is too mild and ambiguous. This userbox “is” sending a message that is inflammatory and divisive, period. —
Sundostund
mppria (
talk /
contribs) 16:02, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- 2:Idk why there's sockpuppetry on a user template, how am I supposed to know?!?! Ask the sockpuppeters not me...
- 3:"Mazhar Ali Khan wrote that "the Khan brothers [were] determined to fight for Akhand Hindustan, and challenged the League to fight the issue out before the electorate of the Province." - the wikipedia shows Muslim support
- Many Pakistanis are genetically similar to Indians and experience similar colour-based discrimination (see Hamza Ahmed, yes many Pakistanis are brown) which is excarbated by their pressure to fit in to the Muslim community, similar to the treatment of certains in Algerian schools/Algeria. Plus, in the UAE, they're treated like slaves just like we're treated. And we both experienced famines and effects of colonization which crippled our economies. Our cultures are also similar; Hindi and Urdu doesn't have much of a difference, we both enjoy cricket and tea, etc. So common struggles have shaped this unified identity.
- I have no idea what the difference between Indian Reunification and Akhand Bharat is but I presume one unrelated to the situation would've written about it as Akhand Bharat's basically an Hindi translation of it.
- राम राम and اَسَّلَ کُمَ اَسَّلَامَ
-
Wicontrib4 (
talk) 04:58, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- After reading something like this, I think it is quite legitimate to raise the issue of
WP:COMPETENCE and how important it is. —
Sundostund
mppria (
talk /
contribs) 07:40, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Where's the policy you refer to in order to delete this? If we went by the same criteria then "Template:User Greater Albania" "Template:User Hates CCP" "Template:User Republican" are also "inflammatory and divisive". So why unnecessary censorship when it comes to pan-Indian political ideologies?
- After reading something like this, I think it is quite legitimate to raise the issue of
WP:COMPETENCE and how important it is. —
Sundostund
mppria (
talk /
contribs) 07:40, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- And, As ShaanSengupta said, how is Akhand Bharat divisive if it literally wants to reunify India? Why'd you cross it out without giving a reason or quantifiable evidence to do so?
- Additionally, if you want to talk WP:COMPETENCE, then let's talk about how some random imperialist European is crying about this who lives on the other side of Dar-Al-Islam than Pakistanis/Indians themselves. How can you comment on our culture when you don't know anything about it?
-
Wicontrib4 (
talk) 16:29, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- Every userbox that support irredentism/annexation of other countries is inflammatory and divisive in its essence, that surely isn't limited to politics of the Indian subcontinent. Are you really saying and believing that people from various South Asian countries, surrounding India, are eagerly waiting to be "liberated" from their own sovereign states and incorporated into some "reunified" Indian Empire/Akhand Bharat? And that such task could be achieved peacefully? I don't think so. This userbox can't be seen as anything else but as an endorsement of extreme Indian/Hindu nationalism, and pretension to the territories of neighboring countries. As for your labeling me as "some random imperialist European", and speculating about what I know or don't know, I see it as a plain personal attack and I strongly advise you to avoid such things in the future. I called your competence into question based on your comment above, for obvious reasons, and I stand by that. — Sundostund mppria ( talk / contribs) 08:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination ,another chauvinistic userbox. Ratnahastin ( talk) 09:24, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Irredentism can be controversial, but I don't see any policy based arguments for deletion, or any precedent for doing so in other areas. Randomly selecting a controversial political topic, I found Wikipedia:Userboxes/Politics by country/Israel and Wikipedia:Userboxes/Politics by country/Palestine. I find this userbox to be far less "controversial" than some of the infoboxen present there. This userbox is rather benign, the nominator's declaration of its association with "extremism" notwithstanding. regards, TryKid dubious – discuss 17:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Simply put, this is effectively the same as "This user believes in
Greater Germany.", yes sure, it is theoretically not inflammatory in it's own right, but it is so deeply entrenched in the
Hindu nationalism ideology, that supporting this concept brings up questions of sympathizing with groups that are
generally less than welcomed.
Sohom (
talk) 13:21, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- Which are these "groups that are generally less than welcomed"? Be a bit more forthcoming. Are you arguing that we ban all supporters of the
Bhartiya Janata Party, perhaps the single largest party by membership and votes in the (democratic) world, from Wikipedia? Let's not go down the "everyone I don't like is literally Hitler" route.
TryKid
dubious –
discuss 20:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
-
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and their history of
Hindu terrorism is what I was talking about for context. I don't give a flying freak about which political party you support.
Sohom (
talk) 04:31, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- If you're this concerned about the RSS, you probably should give a 'flying freak' about the party widely considered to be its political wing. Anyway, the RSS is not a proscribed body in India or anywhere in the world, nor does the Wikipedia page or any source there support the dubious notion of its "history of Hindu terrorism".
- As for the above comments about "pretensions to neighbouring countries' territories", they do not adequately explain what is material difference between say, German reunification, and this, other than some handwaving about the spooky "Hindu nationalism". Some populations in the neighbouring countries do have some
very compelling
reasons to not like the partition. India has in the past (largely) peacefully
annexed territory from the Portuguese and
Sikkim, previously an independent monarchy.
TryKid
dubious –
discuss 06:44, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note that I said "political party you support". I prefer to stay away from current day politics in India (mostly). I disagree with your characterization of the organization in question (and so does the article on Hindu terrorism). I think this conversation itself demonstrates that the userbox is highly contentious and can cause a range of tensions to flare up. Additionally, leaving the cultural connotations aside, given the history of the creator having this arround is basically a IPA sock magnet. Sohom ( talk) 08:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Akhand Bharat could have different means and ends, and is open to interpretations. There has been no historic violence to compare it with mass atrocities and wars of the past. Similarly, I have no knowledge of any serious calls for a mass war or battle even in the future. It seems to be a cultural aspect of Indian reunification. Finally, let us not fall to BIAS.
-
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and their history of
Hindu terrorism is what I was talking about for context. I don't give a flying freak about which political party you support.
Sohom (
talk) 04:31, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- User4edits ( talk) 14:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Which are these "groups that are generally less than welcomed"? Be a bit more forthcoming. Are you arguing that we ban all supporters of the
Bhartiya Janata Party, perhaps the single largest party by membership and votes in the (democratic) world, from Wikipedia? Let's not go down the "everyone I don't like is literally Hitler" route.
TryKid
dubious –
discuss 20:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.