The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:split/rename per nom. –
FayenaticLondon 22:58, 24 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Support This is a clearer rationalisation of the structure, and a much-needed one. I'm still not entirely convinced of the value of the "Fooian company" categories, but agree this change is one for the better.
SFB 21:07, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Support looks like a reasonable change. --
Lenticel(
talk) 00:30, 2 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Question: So we would have video games by country, by country of developer, and by country of publisher? What is the relation of "by country" to the other two categories? Would it be their supercategory, or would it include games both developed and published in the same country?
JIP |
Talk 18:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
OK, then I support the proposal.
JIP |
Talk 20:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bulgarian Roman Catholic bishops
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The result of the discussion was:withdrawn. –
FayenaticLondon 12:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose, as all the member pages link to a Roman Catholic diocese or similar. –
FayenaticLondon 17:29, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Apologies, you're quite right. I was 'distracted' by the fact that most of these bishops were referred to as "Catholic bishops" without Roman.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:53, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Withdraw and please quickly close this proposal.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:53, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
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Category:German expatriates in Tanzania
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The result of the discussion was:delete; can be re-created if it is populated with non-colonial people.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 03:27, 10 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete per
WP:OVERLAPCAT, the content of this category is fully contained in
Category:Colonial people of German East Africa. On top of that, Tanzania did not exist yet for the people in this category, as the country name was German East Africa.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 12:13, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Delete Given the lack of other content, this merely serves as a confusing anachronism. Readers would expect to find German people in modern Tanzania here, not colonial era people.
SFB 21:09, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Ok, that happens to yield the same result as deleting, in this case.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:13, 7 December 2014 (UTC)reply
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Category:Colonial people of German East Africa
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The result of the discussion was:No consensus. There appears to be two issues here. The first, which might be easier to resolve is the use of 'in' vs. 'of'. That is larger then these two categories and should be a new discussion. The other is inclusion of colonial.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 20:46, 30 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: C2C per the tree of
Category:People by former country. The current category name seems to suggest that local people should be excluded from the category, but I don't see a need for such an exclusion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 10:17, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose: A similar category exists for German South-West Africa - and many of the persons categorised there are not even Europeans or German nationals. "Colonial" in this case would not denote merely foreign settlers or expatriate administrators, but figures associated with the colonial period at large, including Africans who were involved in government. --
Katangais (
talk) 19:50, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Still, just 'people' without 'colonial' is the most neutral term one can think of for a category like this and, as mentioned before, it fits better with all other People from former countries categories. By the way, thanks for explaining about German South-West Africa, I will include this in the nomination.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:01, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
After some deliberation I feel I must disagree with you there. We're not describing a former country, we're describing a specific (read: colonial) era in a present country's history. Neutrality is not the issue. Recall that categories also exist for the "colonial people" of every US state in the Union (ie Pennsylvania colonial people, Delaware colonial people, etc). --
Katangais (
talk) 01:14, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Rename, but why "of" and "in" differently? —Brigade Piron (
talk) 10:10, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Support consistent use of "of" or "in" while I'm neutral in the choice between them.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:15, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Support both with "of". Given that the proposed higher level category has no content, I would prefer the grouping to move up the given tree, especially as these are already in the former country tree. This is also a much more respectful categorisation for people like
Chief Mkwawa, who opposed the colonies. The Governors category extracts out the most important "colonial people" anyway. No opposition to recreation should the "People of" categories grow to a large size at a later date.
SFB 21:14, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
In that case, we should rename all of the American categories for colonial people, as well. I see consistency, rather than perceived neutrality, to be the main inhibition to the proposed move. --
Katangais (
talk) 21:16, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Thanks for noticing. I think you're right! And by the way, consistency is also an important argument to me, as I've noticed that "People of" without adjective is the more common category name.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:15, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
————————————————————————————————————————————
As long as we achieve consistency first, I will withdraw my objection to the move. In which case the following categories should also be renamed -
keep as is These categories contain and are meant to contain the colonial masters in each colony. So it obviously just covers a certain period of time when the European colonists were in control and a certain subset people in the colony. These are distinct groups of people (whether you like what they did or not) and should be kept in distinct categories to meet the WP assigned purpose for categories: help for reader navigation to related articles.
Hmains (
talk) 05:30, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Keep all -- The purpose is presumably to categorise settlers separately from indigenous people.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:04, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
For (former) countries there should be a generally accessible people's category to begin with (as I propose). I have no objection against splitting the category later into colonial people and native people within that (former) country if there is sufficient content for each. But the fact is that such a split currently doesn't exist yet.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:32, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
No reason to change anything and split anything. Nominator can create the new categories at any time and include the current categories as sub-categories of them.
Hmains (
talk) 01:12, 8 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Except that at the moment I have no desire to create any new categories because I'm not sure that the native category would have sufficient content. While at the same time I do think that native people are also entitled to belong 'somewhere'.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:32, 12 December 2014 (UTC)reply
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Category:Politics of Tanganyika
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The result of the discussion was:reverse merge for Rhodesia, keep others. –
FayenaticLondon 23:25, 24 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: per the tree of
Category:Political history by country. The content of the nominated category is definitely history, since Tanganyika and Zanzibar ceased to exist in 1964, Rhodesia in 1979.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:45, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose: per the successful precedent set by such cats as Politics of Rhodesia and Politics of Zanzibar. Tanganyika represented a unique polity with its own unique politics, otherwise we'd go ahead and move everything to "Political history of Tanzania" instead. --
Katangais (
talk) 19:53, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Don't worry, I'm not after merging or deletion of the category, it's just a nomination to rename. And regardless of the outcome of this discussion, it seems obvious that the category should also be parented to
Category:Political history of Tanzania. By the way, thanks for mentioning Rhodesia and Tanzania, I'll include them in the nomination as well.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:13, 30 November 2014 (UTC)reply
OK, I don't see that this would do any harm and it would streamline things. I say merge. —Cliftonian(talk) 07:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Rename/Merge for Rhodesia, seems sensible.—Brigade Piron (
talk) 10:07, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose I see the "political history" category as a child of the main "politics", which is useful one for modern states. I don't see how moving all former countries' political articles into the child "political history" tree is beneficial to readers. Few will confuse "Politics of Rhodesia" to indicate that Rhodesia is still extant.
SFB 21:18, 1 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Yes, I would support that merge as it matches my rationale.
SFB 21:31, 2 December 2014 (UTC)reply
Merge for Rhodesia (as a former state). This may also be appropriate for Tanganika as the current politics will be those of Tanzania. I am less sure about Zanibar as it could be used for post-amalgamation local politics.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 18:08, 4 December 2014 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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