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Oppose Confusing, as it may look like albums that were released on 13 February 1961 rather than releases on the 2.13.61 record label.
Orderinchaos 08:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename Per nom. There's no confusion here. Lugnuts (
talk) 17:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Rename to match title of parent article.
Alansohn (
talk) 03:36, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Central Latinoamericana de Trabajadores
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Category:ICFTU Inter American Regional Organisation
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Support Rename to match title of parent article.
Alansohn (
talk) 03:44, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICFTU African Regional Organisation
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The result of the discussion was:RENAME. postdlf (talk) 16:31, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Department of Education, Science & Training (Australia)
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The result of the discussion was:DELETE. postdlf (talk) 16:33, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Arguing that category is obsolete as: 1. Only has
one entry, which would otherwise be correctly classified if this one is removed. 2. The department is now called Dept of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations. (
[1]) 3. It is the only govt department in Australia to have a category.
Orderinchaos 20:01, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Can we assume that it is deletion that is being proposed? Or is there a merge target?
Good Ol’factory(talk) 08:14, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Correct - deletion is being proposed, as there's only one entry and it doesnt belong in the parent category.
Orderinchaos 08:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Since there is no larger scheme at this stage and apparently no other articles to add to the category, I think deletion makes sense here. (But if we were to keep it for some reason I would support renaming it to the current proper name. In case it is kept, I have added to the category what would presumably be the main article,
Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations.)
Good Ol’factory(talk) 03:29, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Religious action on climate change
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The result of the discussion was:.... No discussion or rationale = no result. No point in relisting if there's nothing to relist. postdlf (talk) 16:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Neutral. Proposed by 99. anon. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 18:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Environmentalism and religion
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The result of the discussion was:.... No discussion or rationale = no result. No point in relisting if there's nothing to relist. postdlf (talk) 16:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Neutral. Proposed by 99. anon. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 18:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Australian education organisations
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The result of the discussion was:RENAME. postdlf (talk) 16:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom, and per convention of
Category:Educational organizations by country. The previous discussion included several objections, whose grounds were not very clear, but which seemed to amount to the fact that some of the organisations were actually education providers. Fine: that's a situation which also also occurs in other countries, and is dealt with by sub-categorising as appropriate. None of the "oppose" at the previous CFD seemed to me include any coherent reason why this Australian category could not follow the same naming convention as similar categories in other countries, and I think it's regrettable that the closer has reverted a perfectly proper closure of the earlier CFD. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 15:00, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. I agree with BHG that the "oppose" argument in the recent cfd was not very clear (and remains unclear after several reads).
Occuli (
talk) 16:15, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Oppose on the grounds that, for whatever reasons, the category is not limited at present to "educational organisations" (i.e. organisations of education) but includes many, for want of a better description, organisations in education whose primary purpose is not educational, but rather social or cultural. Hence, it would be factually incorrect for some of the contained items, although not for others. One could argue that it should be split up and then the result renamed - yes, that's fine, but where do the other ones go? If someone has an answer to my question that actually works, I would support its renaming without the included additional items. (For the record, I notice some incorrect entries in other countries' as well, although it isn't as systematic as ours - for instance, many include "Student organisations" which, apart from containing members of an educational institution, don't even try to serve an educational purpose beyond, perhaps, advocacy.)
Orderinchaos 16:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Reply. This really seems to be be a very odd response. If the organisations concerned are not "educational organisations", then what are they doing in "education organisations"? I really cannot see what huge difference is caused by the addition of the adjective "al" (from "education" to "educational") which generates such objections to the rename such a bad idea.
Good question, I didn't create or populate the category (and indeed I think, but I'd have to ask SatuSuro, there was even some controversy at the time of its creation, but I've long forgotten the details). I'm a little confused, I must admit, after looking at the populated UK one to the purpose for this category hierarchy - I can't honestly think of any Australian organisations which would fit the bill, beyond about five -
Universities Australia,
Australasian Language Technology Association,
Australian Association of Mathematics Teachers,
Australian Teachers of Media and
IDP Education Pty Ltd. The foundations and charities don't really exist here as we have a universally accessible university system. This lack of them meant that, until this, I had thought institutions and organisations were the same thing. We do need an institutions category. I'm going to make a subpage to try and figure out what the hell to do with this category.
Orderinchaos 17:20, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I've had a go at analysing the contents
here.
Orderinchaos 17:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Tricky one Now that I understand the basis of the nom a little better, I support its aim, but getting it to actually work is going to be more difficult than a rename, as only a minority of its present scope equates to the new one. I'm coming to the view this category needs to be disbanded, but how exactly is a good question. If anyone can think of a good way to do this, given the mass of competing parallel "by country" categories for educational institutions worldwide, I'm all ears. This may actually flag a likely needed change in those hierarchies, as there's independent overlap everywhere I look.
Orderinchaos 18:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Would anyone be opposed to transferring Libraries, Archives and Museums subcats so they descend from
Category:Australian culture and
Category:Education in Australia? This is in line with other countries with similar categories, and would at least shrink our problem.
Orderinchaos 21:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I just started going though your
list, and I disagree with most of your assessments; you seem to take a very narrow view of education]]. Please look at how the higher level categories are parented:
But this isn't really the place for that discussion. The decision to be made here is about renaming the category fit a long-standing convention, and assessing every last bit the category's contents is a separate issue. I suggest a discussion on the category's talk page, with pointer to it from
WT:AUSTRALIA. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 00:57, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I work in the education sector, and I'm well aware of the cultural sector thanks to some of my other activities and research interests. To give you some idea - around here, the Department of Education and Training here manages schools and
TAFEs, the Department of Culture and the Arts manages libraries, museums and archives. They don't have any interaction with each other. Yes, universities contain their own libraries, but that's an entirely separate issue, most of *these* libraries are not university libraries, they're largely public ones (There are a few uni ones now I look, but the category as a whole is focused on public or state libraries). That seems to be pretty much the same no matter where I look. The interim proposal I put above would bring Australia into line with the European countries. I'm still of the opinion that this category is too over-broad to simply be renamed, and that a decision should be made on its contents first.
Orderinchaos 08:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
As an aside, what was the rationale behind including "Archives" in EO? They have no educational purpose whatsoever, their sole purpose is either cultural or administrative. (Although I disagree with the rationale for libraries and museums, I can at least see how in some construct (or alternate universe maybe?) they may be EOs, but for archives it's just plain wrong.) If I wasn't so busy offline I'd actually consider raising that as a wider issue.
Orderinchaos 08:48, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename per BHG. I really don't understand why we would consider not renaming this category—it should be consistent with the others for other countries. Any further work on subdividing, cleaning up the contents, debating what is "education" vs. "educational" etc. can be pursued at any time, and we don't need to resolve all the issues now. At the present time, this category name sticks out like a sore thumb within
Category:Educational organizations by country.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 08:18, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Defunct Northern Irish association football clubs
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The result of the discussion was:RENAME. postdlf (talk) 16:39, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Inline with numerous other categories recently changed from Northern Irish to in Northern Ireland. This one seems to have been missed out
Djln--
Djln (
talk) 17:41, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Not only in line with previous consensus but in this case reads better too.
Orderinchaos 17:45, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Note: this was corrected the same day. postdlf (talk) 16:39, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Solar system geography
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Nominator's rationale:Upmerge; badly named, and if it were to be separated from the parent category, many articles and categories would need to be moved. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 13:54, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Delete it was necessary before the category was created, so no upmerging is necessary. All entries in this geography category have nothing to do with geography. There are no landforms in this category.
70.29.210.242 (
talk) 04:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Delete—I agree with the above. The structure and layout of the Solar System is already described in the main article for that topic.—
RJH (
talk) 15:56, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Delete as above. A rename to
Category:Solar System regions would be possible but it does not seem necessary as there would be too few entries.
Cjc13 (
talk) 19:51, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Camp films
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The result of the discussion was:DELETE. postdlf (talk) 16:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. Subjective category; those films "intentionally" so made might be appropriate, but there could be disputes. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 13:54, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Certainly, what is or isn't camp is a subjective call, and one that would seem to evolve over time, along with current tastes. So I do agree this is a case of
WP:OC#SUBJECTIVE. The handful of film titles currently categorized here aren't listed in
Campy#Film but could be, if there is consensus that these titles are as representative of camp film as the examples currently cited; which takes us back to the core problem with this categorization scheme, imo, its subjective nature.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 14:56, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I should also point out that the main article has had an
WP:OR tag on it for a year, another indication that we may be wading into the realm of the subjective with this category.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 15:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:CFA Charterholders
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Merge. If a D.Phil or Ph.D. isn't defining, I doubt even a level 3 CFA would be. That's not to trivialize the accomplishment, but most people advanced enough in a profession to have a WP article probably have some sort of certificate in that profession. If anything, what would be interesting is a list of people who lack such credentials in high-profile positions.-
choster (
talk) 17:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Keep, expanding ititials I can't see any reason to delete this, given we have various medical & legal etc "by qualification" categories. Nor would I see any objection to splitting the accountants in this sort of way.
Johnbod (
talk) 20:20, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
A glance at
Category:Professional certification indicates that it is not the norm to classify individual people by professional qualification, although qualification/certification/licensure often overlaps with occupation and we do categorize by occupation. The achievement of a qualification may or may not be defining depending on the era and location, and indeed the criteria for becoming a
Professional Engineer vary from state to state within the U.S.-
choster (
talk) 22:14, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Which should be renamed to match
Barristers in England and Wales, a name which reflects a natural overlap between licensure and occupation. If someone has not been admitted to the bar in this jurisdiction, presumably s/he could not be called a barrister.-
choster (
talk) 14:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
It is a "qualified in" category, capturing people admitted to the E&W bar, many of whom, like Ghandi, then go or return elsewhere. Apparently the CFA operates in the same way, with many foreign students. There is also
Category:English barristers.
Johnbod (
talk) 14:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:English College, Rome
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Comment Although this is the formal name, I'm very doubtful it is the most common. There are book and article titles that don't use it ( Drama in the English College, Rome, 1591-1660', S Gossett - English Literary Renaissance3, 1973. etc) though full-length histories do, and passing references usually don't. Google searches don't work well here. I'm sure the category can be greatly expanded with alumni btw.
Johnbod (
talk) 14:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Per the head article, the college was renamed in 1818 to include the word "venerable" (see
Venerable English College, Rome#The_age_of_the_martyrs_.281581-1679.29), so a book dealing with an earlier period would obviously use the name applying at the time. AIUI, our convention is to use the current name for college categories, even when that creates an anachronism for periods before the renaming. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 15:05, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Even so, I would think omitting the Venerable more usual in references.
Johnbod (
talk) 15:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I've now found an alumni cat that was not linked (!!) so I wonder if the 2 remaining articles can't go there, though no doubt some staff have bios too. Otherwise there are currently just two college articles. That still leaves the name issue for the alumnus category.
Johnbod (
talk) 15:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Rename to match title of parent article.
Alansohn (
talk) 03:36, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Keep current name. The college is usually referred to as simply the English College. The college was founded in 1579 and the Venerable was only added in 1818, so existed for a long time without the Venerable. The entry in the 1913
Catholic Encyclopaedia does not use the Venerable in the title. There is only one English college in Rome so there is no ambiguity and no need to change the name.
Cjc13 (
talk) 12:57, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
My main concern is that the category name should align with the article name; to achieve that, either category or the article needs to be renamed. I was going to suggest that if editors feel that the article is incorrectly named, they should open a
WP:RM discussion at
Talk:Venerable English College, Rome ... but I see that Cjc13 has already done that. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 14:00, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename for now to match the article name. If the article name changes, we can always move it back.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 04:51, 24 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Alumni of the English College, Rome
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Oppose per Cjc13. The situation has changed since the nomination was made, and the category name now matches the article name. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 00:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spin-off albums
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The result of the discussion was:DELETE. postdlf (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This seems trivial and ill-defined to me. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 09:18, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Agree with nom Seems an odd basis on which to categorise albums -
WP:IINFO seems to apply.
Orderinchaos 17:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fan club releases
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Nominator's rationale: Fan clubs aren't just for musical groups or musicians, so it's not clear that this category strictly applies to musical releases. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 09:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:2009–10 Colonial Athletic Conference men's basketball season
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
עוד מישהוOd Mishehu 08:49, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Seems like an uncontroversial no-brainer given the name of the article.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 08:23, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Rename to match title of parent article.
Alansohn (
talk) 03:37, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
My Bad I created it and just flat missnamed it on accident. Id change it myself if I knew how...so yes, it should be changed.
Bsuorangecrush (
talk) 03:48, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Comment: Would this nomination now meet
CFD speedy criterion C2 (C) as "bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree"? This is part of a CAA category tree in which every other member contains the correct conference name of Colonial Athletic Association. —
Dale Arnett (
talk) 21:41, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:All-women bands
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Rename per nom to match head article, but re-create the old category name as a {{category redirect}}, in case people are looking under the old name. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 11:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support rename although shouldn't both article and category have a hyphen? Nitpicky grammar, I know, and Google doesn't answer the question as it seems to be split between those with and those without.
Orderinchaos 20:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Rename to match the main article. I too think use of the hyphen would be grammatically more correct.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 08:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Support Rename to match title of parent article.
Alansohn (
talk) 03:37, 17 March 2010 (UTC)reply
There appears to be general agreement at the Reference desk that there should be a hyphen—more precisely, that
prescriptive grammar requires a hyphen—so I moved the article to the hyphenated form. Rename the category to
Category:All-female bands. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 17:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)reply
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Category:TV series with episodes in the public domain
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
עוד מישהוOd Mishehu 04:49, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Listify. Better dealt with as a list to explain what episodes are in the public domain. Also I'll note that this is a triple intersection and it is not likely defining for the shows. The target category is a redirect to the existing one.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 07:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
Listify Picking several at random, none mentions public domain. Why is
Hawkeye and the Last of the Mohicans (say) included? Looks like OR to me. (It should always be obvious from the article why it is placed in a particular category.)
Occuli (
talk) 16:35, 15 March 2010 (UTC)reply
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