- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Per WP:NBAND #6 as stated. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:45, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Zhou Jieqiong
- Zhou Jieqiong ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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non-notable person, fails WP:NMUSIC – the article was restored with an explanation that she is receiving a "significant individual coverage in China and Korea", which is not supported by sources in this article since this whole article is about the band she is a member of, all sources are just trivial and short, nothing in-depth, and she has ZERO solo releases in music. Snowflake91 ( talk) 16:26, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Speedy Keep – Article needs work, but her notability is beyond reasonable doubt. As the only Chinese member of two popular K-pop bands who often performs solo on Chinese TV shows, Zhou Jieqiong is very famous in China and South Korea. A Baidu search of her Chinese name yields a whopping 4 million pages, and a Baidu News search returns more than 200 recent news articles about her, with significant coverage from numerous media outlets. - Zanhe ( talk) 16:42, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Can you give a few examples of those in-depth news coverage? A short articles "Zhou Jieqiong did that", "Zhou Jieqiong did this", "Zhou Jieqiong will guest on a TV show there and there" etc. is not a significant coverage.
Snowflake91 (
talk) 16:47, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- See e.g. IJQ starbase, 360.cn, and the news site Edushi has a news portal dedicated to her. - Zanhe ( talk) 17:15, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Can you give a few examples of those in-depth news coverage? A short articles "Zhou Jieqiong did that", "Zhou Jieqiong did this", "Zhou Jieqiong will guest on a TV show there and there" etc. is not a significant coverage.
Snowflake91 (
talk) 16:47, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Redirect to
Pristin: per above - individual has not acted nor have they released any solo music.
Abdotorg (
talk) 17:23, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Makes no sense to redirect to
Pristin while ignoring her significant career with
I.O.I. Besides, many members of I.O.I have individual articles. -
Zanhe (
talk) 17:38, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Well, WP:OTHERSTUFF is not a reason; yes, some of those articles about IOI members (especially Yeonjung) probably doesnt meet criterias, you can AFD them if you want. And what is her "significant" career with IOI? Simply being a member of the band does not make her notable, no matter how popular the group is. Snowflake91 ( talk) 17:42, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Makes no sense to redirect to
Pristin while ignoring her significant career with
I.O.I. Besides, many members of I.O.I have individual articles. -
Zanhe (
talk) 17:38, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Note that before nominating an article for deletion, checks such as a search for sources should be performed per
WP:BEFORE, and simple news searches would reveal numerous sources - e.g. in
Chinese and
Korean. She qualifies under
WP:NBAND #6 as
a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.
There is no requirement for solo releases nor for having acted. Hzh ( talk) 17:55, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Good point. Besides, she does act as a dance coach on the popular reality show
Idol Producer. -
Zanhe (
talk) 18:02, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Results on search engines are not relevant, there can be only a few results in reliable media, but all of them could be an in-depth coverage of the person with many details; there can also be a huge number of results, but however, all of them are just a short routine / trivial reports of her (or her group) activity, like in this case. And that #6 criteria has been discussed a lot on the talk page, it even reads "Note that this criterion needs to be interpreted with caution", and how do you determine if she was just "a member" or a "prominent member" of the large group as
I.O.I, she didnt even make top 5 in voting and was not a lead singer of the group either, so why is she a "reasonably prominent member" ?
Snowflake91 (
talk) 19:08, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you want to question the suggestion given in
WP:AFD on what to do when starting an AfD and why you are right to ignore its guidelines, I'd suggest you do it in the talk page there, not here. I'm not sure you have checked the hundreds of news sources to say "all of them are just a short routine / trivial reports", given that first few pages already contain news article that cannot said to be short. Also that "reasonably prominent" would imply that it includes members who are not necessarily the most prominent, which you have arbitrarily cut off at top 5, perhaps you should explain why first.
Hzh (
talk) 23:32, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, all of them are trivial random reports of what she was doing – "Pristin members will sign an endorsement deal with the cosmetic company", "Jieqiong was spotted at the airport wearing this", "Jieqiong posted this on instagram", "Jieqiong will appear on a tv game show as a guest" and that kind of fancruft reports. While the chinese sources – pretty much every single Chinese result are just a short reports/reviews of
Idol Producer episodes, where she is mentioned as a cast member. Do you know what is a "significant, in-depth" cover of the person? Something like
this, and not trivial reports in 4-5 sentences like those Korean/Chinese news articles.
Snowflake91 (
talk) 09:51, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is clear that you haven't actually read much of the articles. I only glanced through a small number out of the hundreds of news links, and they show that she plays major roles in a few TV shows (one show is on wardrobe, perhaps that is what you refer to what talking about what she is wearing), and therefore she also qualifies under
WP:ENTERTAINER #1 for
significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.
The sources you dismissed like this [1] in fact show why she qualifies because of the prominent roles she has in those shows, they are not just trivial passing mentions. I hardly know who she is because I don't pay much attention to modern Chinese or Korean pop culture, but just going through the sources it is clear that she qualifies under multiple criteria. Hzh ( talk) 12:01, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is clear that you haven't actually read much of the articles. I only glanced through a small number out of the hundreds of news links, and they show that she plays major roles in a few TV shows (one show is on wardrobe, perhaps that is what you refer to what talking about what she is wearing), and therefore she also qualifies under
WP:ENTERTAINER #1 for
- Yes, all of them are trivial random reports of what she was doing – "Pristin members will sign an endorsement deal with the cosmetic company", "Jieqiong was spotted at the airport wearing this", "Jieqiong posted this on instagram", "Jieqiong will appear on a tv game show as a guest" and that kind of fancruft reports. While the chinese sources – pretty much every single Chinese result are just a short reports/reviews of
Idol Producer episodes, where she is mentioned as a cast member. Do you know what is a "significant, in-depth" cover of the person? Something like
this, and not trivial reports in 4-5 sentences like those Korean/Chinese news articles.
Snowflake91 (
talk) 09:51, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you want to question the suggestion given in
WP:AFD on what to do when starting an AfD and why you are right to ignore its guidelines, I'd suggest you do it in the talk page there, not here. I'm not sure you have checked the hundreds of news sources to say "all of them are just a short routine / trivial reports", given that first few pages already contain news article that cannot said to be short. Also that "reasonably prominent" would imply that it includes members who are not necessarily the most prominent, which you have arbitrarily cut off at top 5, perhaps you should explain why first.
Hzh (
talk) 23:32, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Results on search engines are not relevant, there can be only a few results in reliable media, but all of them could be an in-depth coverage of the person with many details; there can also be a huge number of results, but however, all of them are just a short routine / trivial reports of her (or her group) activity, like in this case. And that #6 criteria has been discussed a lot on the talk page, it even reads "Note that this criterion needs to be interpreted with caution", and how do you determine if she was just "a member" or a "prominent member" of the large group as
I.O.I, she didnt even make top 5 in voting and was not a lead singer of the group either, so why is she a "reasonably prominent member" ?
Snowflake91 (
talk) 19:08, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Good point. Besides, she does act as a dance coach on the popular reality show
Idol Producer. -
Zanhe (
talk) 18:02, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: Snowflake91, you asked for evidence of sigcov, and I gave you multiple articles from mainstream entertainment and news websites above, yet you still repeatedly claim there's no sigcov. This is a typical case of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. Please stop. - Zanhe ( talk) 14:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- See those GNG criterias again – I cant help if you cant distinguish between "Coverage" and "Significant coverage". Again, none of those mainstream entertainment sites you listed are covering her in-depth, we had many AfDs for K-pop group members and the articles for persons with zero solo musical releases were always deleted, if thats the case, then every single member of any K-pop group could have an own article, because all of them would get a lot of results on search engines (mostly trivial mentioning of their activity – K-pop is so huge, that you would literally get dozens of articles if one random member would just dye their hair or something like that), but that doesnt mean that the subject is covered in-depth. Snowflake91 ( talk) 15:57, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Redirect to Pristin: per above - I went through all links that would load, so far no in-depth coverage - just passing mention in results of the group or Idol Producer. With no solo exposure and no significant roles, it's just typical Kpop member as usually. Agree with Snowflake91 here. Evaders99 ( talk) 02:21, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.