The result was no consensus.
The article has been heavily edited during the AfD and one of the principal concerns of those advocating deletion - that the article drew an improper link between the pre-1900 society and future organisations - has been addressed by the removal of the link. A number of the early delete !votes (eg 4meter4) have to be seen in that context. The AfD has to be judged on whether there is a consensus to delete an article devoted only to the pre-1900 society.
In that debate, there is no consensus. There was some discussion late in the AfD about whether the degree of sourcing about the 19th century society was sufficient but there was nothing approaching a consensus either way. The concerns of some delete !voters - that the article retains highly aggrandizing statements about the society's influence that don't appear to be supported by the sources - look justified to me. There is significant room for the heavy editing, that has lead to a subpar article getting kept at AfD, being continued after this close. I would be happy to hear anyone's concerns if there are any ownership issues that impede such editing.
I have taken into account the fact that a number of the keep !voters appear to be associated, even if not by sockpuppetry. Even if I was to take the extreme route and disregard all those !votes, the outcome would still have been no consensus, because this debate is decided on arguments not numbers and there are a number of substantially well-reasoned keep arguments from unassociated editors (Voceditenore and DGG in particular) that stand in the way of a consensus. -- Mkativerata ( talk) 19:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC) reply
This article is a POV fork of Cornell literary societies. It was cut and pasted from an earlier article that was deleted in May 2010. On October 1, the author asked that a userfied version be restored in Deletion Review. Today, a checkuser found that of the total 7 !votes for "allow recreation" at Deletion review 5 of them came from a batch of sockpuppets, of which 3 were from the same person. So sockpuppetry distorted the DR process. After restoration, because the sources covered a number of literary societies equally, I moved it to Cornell literary societies and deleted unsourced materials claiming that one of the literary societies was now co-extensive with the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity. Absent that undocumented link, it is against WP:ORG for the Cornell chapter to have an article separate from the main Phi Kappa Psi article. All of the sourced material in this article is already in the other fork. Racepacket ( talk) 17:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC) reply
Note. For those participating in this discussion, also see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Cmagha/Archive and this archive of the deletion review. 4meter4 ( talk) 17:18, 28 October 2010 (UTC) reply
– Voceditenore ( talk) 17:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC) reply
The historical ILS which became defunct in 1887 has sufficient notability established via reliable sources for an article on its own. In fact, there is so much information pre-1887 relative to the other societies that it would seriously unbalance the other article. The general material about literary societies at Cornell in this article should sit in Cornell literary societies. The bulk of the information about the ILS should sit here with a summary and {{ main}} link in the other. The version I read needed very heavy editing to bring it up to standard, and even the current one needs restructuring and more editing. Anyone wishing to read Talk:The Irving Literary Society and Talk:Cornell literary societies/Archive 1 will understand why such an editing process has been very, very difficult up to now and may prove to be so in the future, given the fraternity editors' stated intention to protect "their article". But that's no reason to delete it. Voceditenore ( talk) 07:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC) reply
Also, a user who has just registered today,
IndtAithir, appears to have cut and pasted a copy of this article (without attribution) at
User talk:IndtAithir. My understanding of
Wikipedia:UP#COPIES is that it doesn't belong there. I'll leave him/her a note about this, but perhaps an adminstrator could take a look and/or advise too?
Voceditenore (
talk) 08:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
reply