The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. SarahStierch ( talk) 16:39, 15 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Russell Blaylock

Russell Blaylock (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Was nominated back in 2009, the result being no consensus even though the sourcing was not up to snuff. Nothing has changed in that regard: there are not multiple, reliable sources about this person in order to build notability or an article. Thargor Orlando ( talk) 14:34, 7 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:14, 7 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:14, 7 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 16:14, 7 November 2013 (UTC) reply

• Delete No independent reliable sourcing is provided in the article, despite the lengthy bibliography; the only things that even look like independent sources turn out to be op-ed columns or articles from Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN). In my searching, the only independent sourcing I found was an entry for him at The Skeptic's Dictionary. Bottom line: Some pseudoscience promoters are notable enough for an article here, but Blaylock is not.-- MelanieN ( talk) 22:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC) reply
• Delete. GS h-index of 14?. Not enough for WP:Prof#C1 in this highly cited field. Xxanthippe ( talk) 22:59, 7 November 2013 (UTC). reply
• Keep subject of the article, along with Ludwig G. Kempe, developed a novel procedure (transcallosal approach to excising intraventricular meningiomas of the trigone). (WP:Prof#C1 is satisfied if the person has pioneered or developed a significant new concept, technique or idea, made a significant discovery or solved a major problem in their academic discipline.).-- 163.1.147.64 ( talk) 05:44, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Fine. May we have some independent sources? Xxanthippe ( talk) 06:22, 8 November 2013 (UTC). reply

I have also found (being the same human as operated 163.1.147.64 before I returned home) that Kempe and Blaylock also developed the ventriculolymphatic shunt in the treatment of hydrocephalus. I added two PudMed abstracts of neurosurgery journals, one for each, then noticed that the springer link was the publishing house's copy (word for word) of the the PubMed abstract, so have tidied the springer link away. Is this acceptable?-- 86.6.187.246 ( talk) 08:41, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

• • Zero Google Scholar hits for the supposed procedure, and only one book listing. The book was written by Blaylock. Thargor Orlando ( talk) 18:40, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

"Zero Google Scholar hits for the supposed procedure" Really?-- 163.1.147.64 ( talk) 23:35, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

WP:Prof#C1 is satisfied if the person has pioneered or developed a significant new concept, technique or idea, made a significant discovery or solved a major problem in their academic discipline. That notability guideline does mention Google Scholar in the "Citation metrics" section at the bottom of the guidance, where, alongside PubMed, specific cautions are issued: the section starts however with "The only reasonably accurate way of finding citations to journal articles in most subjects is to use one of the two major citation indexes, Web of Knowledge and Scopus" noting that Scopus covers the sciences, but is very incomplete before 1996 - the cites I found related to papers in 1976 and 1977, it also notes that Web of Knowledge may cover the sciences back to 1900, but only the largest universities can afford the entire set.

The same guidance also says about h-index etc:"Measures of citability such as the h-index, g-index, etc., may be used as a rough guide in evaluating whether Criterion 1 is satisfied, but they should be approached with caution since their validity is not, at present, completely accepted, and they may depend substantially on the citation database used. Also, they are discipline-dependent; some disciplines have higher average citations than others."-- 163.1.147.64 ( talk) 20:23, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

• Comment Your cite from WP:PROF is correct. Of course, in "significant new concept, technique or idea", the most important word is "significant" and we have no evidence that anybody considered this significant in the present case. I have access to the full Web of Knowledge. It lists 18 articles by "Blaylock RL". They have been cited a grand total of 201 times, maximum citations 35, 32, 23, h-index of 9. I've had a grad student with these numbers by the time they finished their PhD. As PROF says, low figures do not prove non-notability, but we're not here to show non-notability (it is actually impossible to prove non-notability, as their always may be some sources out there that we missed somehow). Instead, we need to show that there is notability, and these figures sure don't indicate any. -- Randykitty ( talk) 21:03, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

According to Google Scholar "RL Blaylock"'s Immune-Glutamatergic Dysfunction as a Central Mechanism of the Autism Spectrum Disorders is cited 73 times though that does not touch on the "supposed" procedure.-- 163.1.147.64 ( talk) 21:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

Weren't you the one citing extensively from WP:PROF about the advantages of WoK? GS often gives higher counts than WoK. The count I gave is low for WoK. The count you give would still be rather low for WoK, but it is certainly low for GS. We rarely judge an academic notable based on citations alone, except when there are multiple articles with more than 100 cites, a total of 1000 cites or more, and an h-index of 18 or something like that at least. Whether you take WoK or GS, we're far removed from those figures (and this is a high-citation field). -- Randykitty ( talk) 01:40, 9 November 2013 (UTC) reply

I didn't intentionally imply any advantages - only warnings about cite ratings per se and what the Wikipedia community appear to have agreed on regarding guideline inclusion levels, the cite ratings I noted as not best fit for the subject of the article - if you inferred any advantages... none was meant. You replied with more cite ratings stating maxima so when I found a number double that I merely noted it back to you, as your argument otherwise is to the point: 'is this novel procedure significant or not?' It would be very simple if multiple impartial, qualified third parties clearly stated whether this novel procedure is significant or not, how many times does that actually happen though in this particular field? You appear (from your contributions record) to understand this field much better than I, how many times have you been able to add similar such sources to articles on subjects who are stated to have introduced novelty?-- 163.1.147.64 ( talk) 02:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC) reply

• Keep. Although sources on Blaylock himself are skimpy, his works have a lengthy list of citations which more than justify the inclusion of his article within Wikipedia. While I personally don't agree with his methods and research, it is important that they be documented within the article so the public can make a determination of their validity or their non-validity. Deleting the article would be construed as a form of censorship of alternative medicine (which I generally do not support) at the behest of organs such as the AMA, a dubious practice Wikipedia should avoid. HarryZilber ( talk) 17:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

WOW that is some conspiracy theory there! -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:21, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

• Delete A GS h-index of 14, most-cited article on GS has 56 citations. @Harryzilber: This would never be enough to keep a bio of a mainstream researcher. Are you proposing that we should apply lower standards for alternative medicine? -- Randykitty ( talk) 17:56, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply
• Keep per reliable sources below. Unless otherwise noted, all sourced are from newspapers archived in the commercial database Newsbank, and may be verified at WP:REX. The sources are in two groups per relevant rule.

Per WP:PROF #7. "The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity... Criterion 7 may be satisfied, for example, if the person is frequently quoted in conventional media as an academic expert in a particular area."

• "Are sodas detrimental? You decide", Deming Headlight (NM) - August 8, 2013. Section: News. Quote: "According to Dr. Russell Blaylock, a retired neurosurgeon, there is "an enormous increase in tumors, particularly brain tumors" connected to aspartame."
• "Supplements marketed for sexual enhancement were most commonly recalled products." Sacramento Examiner (CA) - May 13, 2013. Section: Sacramento Nutrition Examiner. Quote: "The book, Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills, is one of the first books to address the hazards of food additives."
• "Secret body scanners’ [50 times more Radiation] than airport x-ray scanners (Video)", Albuquerque Examiner (NM) - Monday, January 14, 2013 Quote: "..included is Dr. Russell Blaylock , M.D., (FL.) a board certified neurosurgeon, who stated: “The growing outrage over.."
• "DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECTS OF SOME DRUGS", Watertown Daily Times (NY) - Tuesday, January 8, 2013 Quote: "Retired neurosurgeon, i.e. free to speak, Russell Blaylock prophetically stated after the Virginia Tech massacre, "With millions of people.."
• "Should parents be concerned about the whooping cough vaccine?", Chicago Examiner (IL) - Wednesday, August 1, 2012 Quote: "Dr. Russell Blaylock is neurosurgeon, author and leading vaccine expert."
• "Another view on vaccination". Taos News (NM) - Thursday, June 28, 2012 Quote: "Vigil suggests going to the CDC website. As an alternative (you should always get a second opinion), I suggest these websites run by medical professionals and other highly educated people: Dr. Russell Blaylock is a board-certified neurosurgeon, author and lecturer."
• "Eight Fake Health Foods". Statesman-Examiner (Colville, WA) - Wednesday, June 13, 2012. Quote: "In 2012, there is no longer any way to guarantee that a soybean is not genetically modified. In addition, Dr. Russell Blaylock , an actual brain surgeon, tells us that TVP belongs to a group of poisons called excitotoxins. Dr. Blaylock says that excitotoxins kill your brain cells, and that guy has looked at a lot of brain cells, so I believe him."
• "These things have ruined our endocrine health". Cumberland Times-News (MD) - Tuesday, April 3, 2012 Quote: "In the February, 2012 Blaylock Wellness Report, Dr. Russell Blaylock had a great review on “The Secret Science of Losing Fat.”"
• "Spice It Up". The Brazosport Facts (Clute, TX) - Sunday, March 25, 2012 Quote: "“Turmeric has an ability to help block cancer-causing chemicals that are created when you sear meat,” she said. Information supporting this idea comes from neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock , author of several books on natural ways to improve health."
• "MSG is in more foods than you think". Appeal-Democrat (Marysville-Yuba City, CA) - Sunday, October 9, 2011. Quote: "In her book "Breakthrough: Eight Steps to Wellness," Suzanne Somers interviews Dr. Russell Blaylock , a board-certified neurosurgeon and nutritional practitioner." etc.. many quotes
• "Sugar: Ditch it and improve your physical and mental health". Oakland Examiner (CA) - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 Quote: "Dr. Russell Blaylock (Neurosurgeon, author and lecturer) explains that high sugar content and starchy carbohydrates lead to excessive insulin release, which leads to falling blood sugar levels, or hypoglycaemia."
• "Are vaccines harmful rather than beneficial?" Atlanta Examiner (GA) - Monday, April 25, 2011 Quote: "Dr Russell Blaylock , a neurosurgeon, is concerned that vaccinations themselves are causing an upsurge in childhood diseases and adult maladies such as Lou Gehrig’s disease, Gulf War Syndrome and Parkinson’s disease. "
• "An alternative look at cancer awareness" Chicago Examiner (IL) - Friday, October 8, 2010 Quote: "..he had a special guest who was very knowledgeable; Dr. Russell Blaylock , board certified neurosurgeon and researcher of nutrition for disease prevention. Dr. Blaylock shared some “eye-opening” facts and studies about breast cancer that we need to consider."
• "Letter: Swine flu paranoia swells need for vaccine" Herald Bulletin (Anderson, IN) - Thursday, September 17, 2009 Quote: "I want to quote, Dr. Russell Blaylock , who stated, “This virus continues to be an enigma for virologists."
• "Vaccination and brain injuries: Are you at risk?" Cumberland Times-News (MD) - Thursday, September 3, 2009 Quote: "On Aug. 11, I gave a 20-minute presentation to the Allegany County School Board in an attempt to educate the current school board members on the new medical research on immunoexcitotoxicity by Dr. Russell Blaylock ."
• "Suzanne Somers' New Book on How She Beat Cancer." CNN - Saturday, December 20, 2008 Quote: "Somers: One neuroscientist I interviewed -- his name is Dr. Russell Blaylock -- he said avoid things in bags and boxes. Avoid diet soda. He said one diet soda so over-stimulates the neurons of the brain, it literally excites them to death within six to eight hours. He said.."
• "Suzanne Somers Pens Book on Wellness" FOX News Channel - Tuesday, September 16, 2008 Quote: "SOMERS: Anyway, it's my reality, and I'm really, really passionate about this. So I'm interviewing this brain surgeon, Dr. Russell Blaylock (ph), a brain scientist. And he said..."
• "Want full disclosure with that meal?" St. Petersburg Times (FL) - Sunday, September 25, 2005 Quote: "Russell Blaylock , a board-certified neurosurgeon and author of Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills, notes that our current childhood obesity epidemic mirrors exactly the MSG-induced obesity in experimental animals."
• Vartan, Starre. E: The Environmental Magazine. Nov/Dec2003, Vol. 14 Issue 6, p42-43. Abstract: Provides information on natural alternatives to sugar. Health risks associated with aspartame; Comments from neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock; Vitamin content of honey; Description of agave nectar.
• Jule Klotter. "High-Dose Antioxidants & Cancer Treatment." Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients. August 2001 p16. Abstract: Examines Blaylock's paper "A Review of conventional Cancer Prevention and Treatment and the Adjunctive Use of Nutraceutical Supplements and Antioxidants" (Source: Health & Wellness Resource Center | (Gale))
• "Sisters try to fight debilitating disease with specific diet" - Charleston Daily Mail (WV) - Tuesday, May 11, 1999 Quote: "The key, Hypes reasoned, was what nationally acclaimed author Dr. Russell Blaylock calls excitotoxins - chemicals, often flavor enhancers, usually added to food. They stimulate nerve endings."
• "The lowdown on sweetener - Some doctors say aspartame may be unsafe" Boston Herald - Sunday, May 9, 1999 Quote: ""In my opinion, aspartame has not been demonstrated to be a safe food additive," said Dr. Russell Blaylock , a professor of neurosurgery at the Medical University of Mississippi."
• "ASPARTAME DANGERS" Journal-World (Lawrence, KS) - Thursday, February 11, 1999 Quote: "Dr. Russell Blaylock , neurosurgeon, said that aspartame stimulates brain neurons to death, causing brain damage of varying degrees. He has written a book: "Excitotoxins: Taste That Kills." "
• "26 MILLION AMERICANS ARE TROUBLED BY MIGRAINE HEADACHES REGULARLY" St. Louis Post-Dispatch - Sunday, January 18, 1998 Quote: "Monosodium glutamate, better known as MSG, has been linked to migraines. MSG is found in hundreds of foods, and the severity of the headache depends on the quantity consumed, according to Russell Blaylock , author of "Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills.""
• Crayhon, Robert. "MSG: Not the taste of health." Total Health. Mar/Apr97, Vol. 19 Issue 1, p53 Abstract: Focuses on the adverse effects of the additive monosodium glutamate (MSG). Several names of MSG; Findings of Dr. Russell Blaylock about MSG in causing nuerodegenerative diseases.
• "FOOD POLICE FULL OF HALF-BAKED IDEAS" Plain Dealer (Cleveland, OH) - Sunday, June 11, 1995 Quote: "Some experts, in fact - among them neuroscientist Dr. John Olney, Dr. George Schwartz, an internationally known physician, toxicologist and author, and Dr. Russell Blaylock , a neurosurgeon and associate professor of neurosurgery - have maintained that these "excitotoxins" can cause brain damage and behavorial problems, especially in children and adolescents, and help accelerate the course of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's."
• "WHAT'S EATING KIDS? MAYBE IT'S THEIR DIETS" THE ORLANDO SENTINEL - Sunday, March 12, 1995 Quote: "Hundreds of millions of infants and young children are at great risk and their parents are not even aware of it, warns Dr. Russell Blaylock , author of a recent book Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. Blaylock is a neurosurgeon and associate professor of neurosurgery at the Medical University of Mississippi. According to Blaylock.."
• "MSG'S POSSIBLE EFFECT ON BRAIN LATEST FOCUS OF CONTINUED DEBATE" - Daily News of Los Angeles (CA) - Thursday, August 4, 1994 Quote: " The latest questions about MSG risk have been raised by Dr. Russell Blaylock , a neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery at the Medical University of Mississippi, who speculates that .."
• Pratt, Steven. "FLAVOR-ENHANCING MSG IS EVERYWHERE, BUT IS IT HARMLESS OR AN "EXCITOTOXIN"? Chicago Tribune July 28, 1994"
• "How Far from Sugar Is Splenda?", Bloomberg BusinessWeek, February 01, 2005
• "it's all a plot to anti-vaccination conspiracy nuts", The Montreal Gazette, November 08 2009
• "The Hidden Danger in Your Food", CBN.com, February 17, 2007

Per WP:AUTHOR #3, "multiple book reviews in reliable sources".

-- Green Cardamom ( talk) 18:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC) reply

• Keep. He's a notable alternative medicine personality involved in various forms of quackery and fringe beliefs. It should be possible to find skeptic sources which mention him and debunk his nonsense. -- Brangifer ( talk) 02:47, 9 November 2013 (UTC) reply
• Keep - Sufficient cultural footprint to merit encyclopedic biography, whether or not one agrees with his controversial views. Sourced out well enough to cover the verifiability issue, I think. Carrite ( talk) 05:52, 9 November 2013 (UTC) reply
• KEEP i'm not an editor so i'm not arguing based on your guidelines. i'm a user and i'm letting you know how users use your site. i needed to know what year his book 'excitotoxins' was written so i did what i always do when i want to know something - came to wikipedia. the content here goes beyond encyclopedic and that is why i use it. when wiki was starting it, it wanted to be an online encyclopedia that was as good as a 'real' one. you've developed something that has surpassed your original goal. grow with it and allow the site to become better than a 'real' encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.108.226.190 ( talk) 19:49, 10 November 2013 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.