- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sandstein 16:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Rojina Shrestha
- Rojina Shrestha ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Non-notable model and beauty pageant contestant and appears to be a case of WP:BLP1E. There is no evidence to satisfy WP:NMODEL and no significant coverage in independent secondary reliable sources to support general notability guideline. I'm also nominating the following article for the same reason. GSS ( talk| c| em) 04:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. GSS ( talk| c| em) 04:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. GSS ( talk| c| em) 04:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nepal-related deletion discussions. GSS ( talk| c| em) 04:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Delete total lack of enough sourcing to show notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:58, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. There are several concerns about this nomination. The first is the bundling of two distinct articles into a single nomination. Was this done simply because they are both women from Nepal? If so, that's a terrible reason for bundling nominations. Especially so, given that one of the subjects is a delegate to a minor regional pageant, but the other is a delegate to the Miss Universe pageant. The latter has an annual global viewership of something on the order of 1 billion people and the deletion discussion for that person is likely to proceed along different lines. I encourage the nominator to withdraw the second name and open up a separate discussion for that second article.
As for the rationales for deletion, it's puzzling that the nominator cites WP:NMODEL, because neither subject's "claim to fame" is as a model. Equally inapplicable is the appeal to WP:BLP1E. So that leaves only the observation that there are no reliable sources out there. Maybe so, but both subjects are from Nepal and in-country sources are more likely to be in the Nepali language and written in the Devanagari script. Is the nominator telling us that there are no useful sources in that script? Would the nominator be willing to back that up with a second search template using the subjects' names written in the Devanagari script? If not, then it's difficult to see how a proper WP:BEFORE has been done. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 18:24, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- @
NewYorkActuary: The reason nominating both article at one place is not what you are assuming but if you look at both articles you will find same issue, same sources and created by the same user. A Google News search for
रोजिना श्रेष्ठ and
सहारा बस्नेत turns up only 16 results for both and almost same sources about the same event and 6 out 16 for Rojina Shrestha are about a different person who has the same name. I actually don't see a clear reason in your vote above that why this article should be kept so can you please explain why this article should not be deleted and how BLP1E is inapplicable? Thank you –
GSS (
talk|
c|
em) 19:18, 7 April 2018 (UTC) (update: 19:39, 7 April 2018 (UTC))
- Thanks for following up on this. It is indeed true that my first posting was limited to "meta" issues. But I'll be happy to expand on it now.
Wikipedia offers wide coverage of entertainment topics, includes those that involve structured systems of organised competition. In virtually all of the latter topics, the general rule is that people will be viewed as presumptively notable if they have competed at the highest levels in their fields. Thus, Wikipedia offers "completist" coverage of people who have competed in the top levels of badminton, curling, kickboxing, and rodeo (just to name a few). To date, no one has offered any cogent reason why this same criterion should not also apply to international pageantry, whose "Big Four" events have global viewership that dwarfs that of most of the athletic competitions. And that's why I think it advisable to separate the two nominations. Basnet's top level of competition was at the minor international pageant, Miss Asia Pacific. If this article were separately nominated, I probably wouldn't even show up for the discussion. But Shrestra is a different ballgame. Shrestra competed at Miss Earth, which is in the highest level of pageantry competitions (i.e., the Big Four international beauty pageants).
As for WP:BLP1E, its very terms limit its application to low-profile individuals. A person who gets on stage for a televised event and meets with the press, and then gets on a plane to travel to another country to do it all over again, is most definitely not trying to maintain a "low profile". WP:BLP1E doesn't apply here.
Thank you also for providing the names in the Devanagari script. In a few minutes, I'm going to take the liberty of adding complete "search" templates for both of them. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 21:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- This gives pretty much the same results as the links already provided by GSS-1987.
NewYorkActuary (
talk) 21:45, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- @
NewYorkActuary: I respect your judgement but I still can't see any coverage or notability outside being on the list of top four at
Miss Nepal 2017 and yes Shrestra competed like many others but was not the winner or runner-up which is insufficient for a stand-alone article.
GSS (
talk|
c|
em) 04:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I share your sentiments. It's perfectly possible to have rational reasons for being on either side of this debate. I see it as a question of whether we need these types of articles to be full biographies, or can be satisfied with something less. And for this latter view, I look to articles such as
Mike McCahey,
Emma Grant and
Al Dwight. All of these are very brief and are sourced only to a single on-line database. There's something else they have in common -- they would almost certainly survive a deletion discussion, because the "keep" votes would argue that they competed at the top levels of their fields. And that's the paradigm that I'm looking at. Shrestha competed at the top level of her field (by competing at
Miss Earth) and, by wide-ranging consensus in articles on other systems of organised competition, that should be enough to keep the article.
NewYorkActuary (
talk) 14:29, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Well I personally don't believe we should have a stand-alone article on every individual who competed in a beauty contest unless they end up winning the show or at least meet our notability criteria such as WP:GNG. Pinging Johnpacklambert to see if he would like to say anything. Thank you – GSS ( talk| c| em) 15:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I share your sentiments. It's perfectly possible to have rational reasons for being on either side of this debate. I see it as a question of whether we need these types of articles to be full biographies, or can be satisfied with something less. And for this latter view, I look to articles such as
Mike McCahey,
Emma Grant and
Al Dwight. All of these are very brief and are sourced only to a single on-line database. There's something else they have in common -- they would almost certainly survive a deletion discussion, because the "keep" votes would argue that they competed at the top levels of their fields. And that's the paradigm that I'm looking at. Shrestha competed at the top level of her field (by competing at
Miss Earth) and, by wide-ranging consensus in articles on other systems of organised competition, that should be enough to keep the article.
NewYorkActuary (
talk) 14:29, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @
NewYorkActuary: I respect your judgement but I still can't see any coverage or notability outside being on the list of top four at
Miss Nepal 2017 and yes Shrestra competed like many others but was not the winner or runner-up which is insufficient for a stand-alone article.
GSS (
talk|
c|
em) 04:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for following up on this. It is indeed true that my first posting was limited to "meta" issues. But I'll be happy to expand on it now.
- @
NewYorkActuary: The reason nominating both article at one place is not what you are assuming but if you look at both articles you will find same issue, same sources and created by the same user. A Google News search for
रोजिना श्रेष्ठ and
सहारा बस्नेत turns up only 16 results for both and almost same sources about the same event and 6 out 16 for Rojina Shrestha are about a different person who has the same name. I actually don't see a clear reason in your vote above that why this article should be kept so can you please explain why this article should not be deleted and how BLP1E is inapplicable? Thank you –
GSS (
talk|
c|
em) 19:18, 7 April 2018 (UTC) (update: 19:39, 7 April 2018 (UTC))
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.