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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 10:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC) reply

Racial misrepresentation

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Racial misrepresentation (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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This topic is already covered, primarily in Passing (racial identity). Indigenous girl ( talk) 20:20, 21 December 2021 (UTC) reply

  • Comment This is actually covered in the Passing article, should you take the time to thoroughly read it. The inclusion of Native Americans within the context of race when ones Native identity is rooted in nationhood is problematic. Being Indigenous has nothing to do with race, it has to do with community. Indigenous girl ( talk) 20:42, 22 December 2021 (UTC) reply
    The article isn't about indigenous specifically, it's about all cases of racial misrepresentation. ( t · c) buidhe 01:46, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply
And again you confirm that you want to use Wikipedia to redefine Indigenous identity as racial. This is the exact approach that tribal leaders and Indigenous scholars have repeatedly stated is harmful and simply not the way Indigenous identity is defined. Some of the frauds you put on this list are there precisely because the offensive thing they did was attempt to redefine tribal identify via racialization - such as by a DNA test (Elizabeth Warren) - even after being told that's not how it's done. Links to just a few of the articles on this issue: Elizabeth Warren’s claim to Cherokee ancestry is a form of violence, 'There is no DNA test to prove you're Native American', Press Release: Cherokee Nation responds to Senator Warren’s DNA test - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 20:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC) reply
Comment User:Vizjim, false representations about one's race are false representations about one's race. It's a factual matter. The encyclopedia can address those representations without delving into anyone's motivations. 74.67.6.88 ( talk) 21:49, 23 December 2021 (UTC) reply
The original comment from User:buidhe was "Racial misrepresentation is different, it is actively lying about one's racial background." This article is differentiated from the one on passing by a focus on intention. Vizjim ( talk) 01:33, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and Redirect back to the more comprehensive and nuanced article that the only salvageable content and sources were taken from: Passing (racial identity).
Buidhe has said on article talk in a move discussion that the goal here is to move other articles into this one, including Indigenous identity articles that do not define identity based on these concepts of race. [1] Buidhe is not listening to any of the editors from the Indigenous Wikiproject who are trying to explain this to him, nor does Buidhe appear to be reading the sources that explain this. Those of us who regularly edit articles on ethnic and racial issues - especially BLPs - know how sensitive and skilled we have to be in this work, and how often policy-violating edits are made to these articles. This is one of those inappropriate edits - it's flawed from inception. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 20:50, 22 December 2021 (UTC) reply
The original version of the article did not take any content or sources from the "passing" article and contained sufficient sources to show it is a separate and notable topic. ( t · c) buidhe 01:48, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply
Comment User:CorbieVreccan, contrary to your assertion about all of the viable material in this article being taken from the article on passing, four examples listed in this article (Carrillo, Jones/Seltzer, Malone, and Nasdijj) are not mentioned at all in the article on passing. 74.67.6.88 ( talk) 21:59, 23 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and redirect to the article suggested above.  oncamera  (talk page) 21:03, 22 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and Redirect. This article is just a list that duplicates information found elsewhere. Yuchitown ( talk) 16:35, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown reply

Just flagging up that 74.67.6.88, who has been commenting on this AfD as a separate user, appears to be User:buidhe posting while logged out. This IP address has picked up a bunch of warnings, especially when editing articles relevant to this topic, which might suggest logging out is a deliberate tactic. Vizjim ( talk) 01:42, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply

Vizjim, if you suspect sockpuppetry please file at WP:SPI. Otherwise I expect you to strike these unsupported assertions. ( t · c) buidhe 01:45, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply
Vizjim, that's a false accusation and you have no basis for making it. Knock it off. 74.67.6.88 ( talk) 04:52, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply
You're correct, I should strike and will report. However, I can't see how to strike on my phone. Any suggestions, or can someone do it for me? Vizjim ( talk) 10:46, 24 December 2021 (UTC) reply
There's a template you can use :: /info/en/?search=Template:Strikethrough. Yuchitown ( talk) 14:46, 24 December 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain ( talk) 00:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC) reply

  • Comment- I think we have consensus. Nom plus five others want this deleted and redirected to Passing (racial identity). Article creator and IP who has done the most work on it, and just one other want it kept. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 18:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. As explained by Buidhe, this topic is conceptually different from Passing (racial identity) so merging would not be appropriate. Colin M ( talk) 02:39, 30 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Comment- Six against four isn't much of a consensus at all. Let's leave it the way it is. 74.67.6.88 ( talk) 06:24, 30 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Suggestion. The problem with this article is that it doesn't have much in the way of a clear reason for existence. It's pretty much just a couple of definition paragraphs and a list. Why not retitle it List of cases of racial misrepresentation? That way, it would be a useful supplement to existing articles on the various forms of national/racial/ethnic/gender misrepresentation, it would retain all the good work done by the editors who have worked on it, and it would avoid the current duplication with other articles. Vizjim ( talk) 14:55, 3 January 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Passing is conceptually different than racial misrepresentation because of the inherent power dynamics in the context of passing which is a survival skill when placed in context. Historically, the term has been used primarily in the United States to describe a person of color or of multiracial ancestry who assimilated into the white majority to escape the legal and social conventions of racial segregation and discrimination. Racial misrepresentation on the other hand, often involves other factors and may include white individuals trying to misrepresent themselves as a person of color in a way that is offensive and different from the experiences of those impacted by diasporic movements. Examples would include Jessica Krug and Rachel Dolezal. This Washington Post article makes a distinction between passing and racial misrepresentation. I would argue that some of the content in the passing article doesn't belong there, but belongs in the racial misrepresentation article. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC) reply
This listicle is also duplicated at: List of impostors#False minority national identity claims. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 22:46, 6 January 2022 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: While there's numerically more support for deletion, it isn't clear to the uninvolved reader why "indigenous identity isn't racial" has anything to do with keeping this particular title. Conversely, it isn't obvious why this cannot be a subsection of Passing (racial identity).
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde ( Talk) 23:12, 8 January 2022 (UTC) reply

  • Merge to article on racial passing. Many of the above comments assume a false binary which would make this easy to sort out. How do we however consider African-Americans representing themselves as Native Americans? I do not think there is an easy answer to that question. In fact the answer may in part depend on when it was done, but since there is no easy answer I do not think we can claim these are two inherently different concepts. Especially if we are to be a global encyclopedia with global coverage, because on a global scale I could bring up way more confounding issues. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:46, 11 January 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, This article does not give comprehensive information about the title. Alex-h ( talk) 14:55, 11 January 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Weak Keep I agree with the other keep votes. The two articles do appear to cover different concepts and shouldn't be merged... and addressing the two different concepts is warranted for Wikipedia. *However* the problem is, this article needs improvement to make it more meaningful, and to make the distinction clear. I'm concerned the article's aren't distinguised enough from each other. Deathlibrarian ( talk) 22:47, 11 January 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. This and Passing are two diffeent subjects, essentially the opposite of each other . Look at hte examples DGG ( talk ) 06:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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