- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. There's sources, but people can't agree on whether they're WP:SIGCOV or just passing mentions. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:40, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Phoebe Hirsch
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- Phoebe Hirsch ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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This may be a BLP. Most of the content is referenced to FBI investigative reports of the J. Edgar Hoover era, which I do not consider reliable nor of use for establishing the notability of a person. My search for coverage in reliable sources shows that she was a member of SDS and the Weatherman, but those were passing mentions and I could not find any significant coverage of her as a person. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I’m seeing a great number of hits in Google books but they’re almost all snippet views so it’s hard to know what depth they offer. Coverage is certainly extensive however. Mccapra ( talk) 11:35, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - Agree with Mccapra, certainly more results than Ashley, who, as Cullen328 mentioned in that AfD, mostly appears in lists of names. I read Days of Rage years ago--she shows up there; a lot of coverage is going to be tied to late '60s/'70s newspaper and magazine stories. Caro7200 ( talk) 12:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment For what it's worth, I pulled out my ancient copy of "SDS", by Kirkpatrick Sale, a 752 page book about the organization. Phoebe Hirsch is mentioned just twice, both in footnotes. One footnote is a long list of SDS members involved in early planning for the Venceremos Brigade, and the second footnote is a list of 1969 NIC candidates. Hirsch was elected as an alternate, and later joined the NIC when someone else resigned. So, she is not discussed in the body of this book, just mentioned fleetingly in the footnotes. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I just did an online search of "Outlaws of America: The Weather Underground and the Politics of Solidarity", a book by Dan Berger. As far as I can see, Hirsch is not mentioned at all in that book. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:09, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I say this respectfully, as you've helped me out at the Teahouse (which I appreciated) and, from looking at your userpage, you know a lot about this period of history: She clearly wasn't among the most "important" SDS or Weatherman members. She is covered in many sources, although a majority may be small mentions. I could find even more than what is available through Google at the academic library where I work, if I wanted to expend the effort of going through databases and microfilm--which I don't. I think the frustrating thing with AfDs is that, depending on the AfD, they swing wildly from "X is covered in enough RS!" to more nuanced debates, or ruminations on editors' personal notability standards and Wiki-philosophies...see the Ella German and Alyssa Carson ones as well... Caro7200 ( talk) 16:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 13:06, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 13:06, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete a few extremely passing mentions do not establish notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 12:41, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 ( talk) 01:58, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 ( talk) 01:58, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There has been a lot of commenting, but only one !vote beyond the nom. Some discussion about whether the mentioned coverage satisfies N is merited.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 13:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Relisting comment: There has been a lot of commenting, but only one !vote beyond the nom. Some discussion about whether the mentioned coverage satisfies N is merited.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 13:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Aaqib Anjum Aafī ( talk) 15:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Aaqib Anjum Aafī ( talk) 15:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep This looks like a borderline case but without a clear consensus to delete, I think we should keep it. Mccapra ( talk) 21:06, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and per WP:BLPSOURCES. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:37, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. There appears to be enough (offline) news coverage of her 1960s activities to justify an article. Moreover, she has apparently published well-regarded scholarly work in recent years as Phoebe Dubin or Phoebe Hirsch-Dubin (see [1], [2], enough to tip the balance to notability. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! ( talk) 12:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.