- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sandstein 09:16, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Otto Erb
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No evidence that he meets WP:BIO. I couldn't find any Google News results about him, and general Google hits are restricted to databases or primary sources.
WP:NSPORTS was changed yesterday to include medalists at the wheelchair curling world championships [1], but this addition was only based on a local consensus of the curling project, and not checked at the general nsports discussion page. It seems that it can't be automatically assumed that medalists are notable for that reason alone (many are already notable as e.g. medalists at the Paralympics). Fram ( talk) 07:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Fram ( talk) 07:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disability-related deletion discussions. Fram ( talk) 07:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Fram ( talk) 07:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom — Yours, Berrely • Talk∕ Contribs 08:04, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - The change to WP:NSPORTS has been reverted, so the subject needs to pass WP:GNG. My searches do not turn up any significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. If such coverage is presented, I remain open to reconsidering. Cbl62 ( talk) 12:49, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - Nominator "general Google hits are restricted to databases or primary sources" --> Several secondary sources can be found via Google: one example
here
SportsOlympic (
talk) 12:57, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- You want to keep a curling medal winner based on a source which doesn't mention curling at all?
Fram (
talk) 13:01, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Yes. If a person meets GNG, the article should be kept. Nice to see the room for improvement.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 14:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Are we sure that's the same person? power~enwiki ( π, ν) 20:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Yes. If a person meets GNG, the article should be kept. Nice to see the room for improvement.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 14:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- You want to keep a curling medal winner based on a source which doesn't mention curling at all?
Fram (
talk) 13:01, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Even if it was the same person, we're talking about a short profile of a candidate for city council of a
Wohlen, Aargau, a city of 16,477 persons. Such coverage is plainly insufficient under
WP:NPOL.
Cbl62 (
talk) 00:45, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Indeed. It probably (though not abxolutely certain) is the same person, but this is a very local news story about a political candidate for a town council, and as such is not indicating any notability.
Fram (
talk) 06:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- For sure it's the same person.
here a short story about him and wheelchair curling. Also see in the article it's the same date of birth and he is in a wheelchair.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 08:12, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't say he meets
WP:NPOL, nobody says that. We should discuss he meets WP:GNG. The sum of everything. Being a local politician with many secondary sources coverage, being a wheelchair curler winning a main medal. And local news is enough for meeting WP:GNG.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 08:17, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, local news is normally not considered towards notability. E.g. for companies, we have
WP:LOCALCOVERAGE. For politicians, only "major" local politicians are supposed to be notable, a councillor in a small village is not in that category. Oh, and where are the "many secondary sources" you claim? So far, you have provided one about his political career, and none about his curling career.
Fram (
talk) 08:50, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Please show this guideline for "local news is normally not considered towards notability"? A discussion at WP:NSPORT I recently started states the opposite.
Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 36#Is everybody reaching GNG notable?. Please read before stating something: I provided above two.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 08:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- For politicians? No. He hasn't received any attention, local or not, for his sports career. And above, you provided one secondary source, the other, the "short story about him", is not an independent source but a publication from the "inhabitants council" from his village where he is voted their representative in the finance council, and contains a very brief bio of him; while this verifies information, it doesn't count towards notability at all.
Fram (
talk) 09:26, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Again please show this guideline for "local news is normally not considered towards notability"? Also I would like to see were in GNG guideline is stated that a secondary source should have information, in this case, about curling.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 09:47, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- We have no "notability" sources about his curling so far, all we have are sources (or to be more precise, a source) about his political career. The coverage for his political career, as has been said, doesn't meet the requirements of WP:NPOL for local politicians. Where a specific guideline is more strict than the rather loose GNG, the requirements of that specific guideline take precedence (or, if you prefer, subjects are supposed to meet both the GNG and the specific guideline). Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to have guidelines which are more strict than the GNG at all of course. If he would meet the GNG for efforts unrelated to his political career, then of course "but he doesn't meet NPOL" is not a good argument. But in this case, as the source is about the politician, not about the curler, "he doesn't meet NPOL" is a perfectly valid argument, and it is up to the people wanting to keep this to provide sources that show that he does meet NPOL, or sources about something else (like his curling) which may give him notability. Fram ( talk) 10:19, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Again please show this guideline for "local news is normally not considered towards notability"? Also I would like to see were in GNG guideline is stated that a secondary source should have information, in this case, about curling.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 09:47, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- For politicians? No. He hasn't received any attention, local or not, for his sports career. And above, you provided one secondary source, the other, the "short story about him", is not an independent source but a publication from the "inhabitants council" from his village where he is voted their representative in the finance council, and contains a very brief bio of him; while this verifies information, it doesn't count towards notability at all.
Fram (
talk) 09:26, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Please show this guideline for "local news is normally not considered towards notability"? A discussion at WP:NSPORT I recently started states the opposite.
Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 36#Is everybody reaching GNG notable?. Please read before stating something: I provided above two.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 08:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, local news is normally not considered towards notability. E.g. for companies, we have
WP:LOCALCOVERAGE. For politicians, only "major" local politicians are supposed to be notable, a councillor in a small village is not in that category. Oh, and where are the "many secondary sources" you claim? So far, you have provided one about his political career, and none about his curling career.
Fram (
talk) 08:50, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't say he meets
WP:NPOL, nobody says that. We should discuss he meets WP:GNG. The sum of everything. Being a local politician with many secondary sources coverage, being a wheelchair curler winning a main medal. And local news is enough for meeting WP:GNG.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 08:17, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- For sure it's the same person.
here a short story about him and wheelchair curling. Also see in the article it's the same date of birth and he is in a wheelchair.
SportsOlympic (
talk) 08:12, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Indeed. It probably (though not abxolutely certain) is the same person, but this is a very local news story about a political candidate for a town council, and as such is not indicating any notability.
Fram (
talk) 06:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Even if it was the same person, we're talking about a short profile of a candidate for city council of a
Wohlen, Aargau, a city of 16,477 persons. Such coverage is plainly insufficient under
WP:NPOL.
Cbl62 (
talk) 00:45, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete short profiles on candidates for city council in cities under 20,000 people never add to any sort of notability at all. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:52, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.