- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 14:42, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
Neal Ludevig
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Neal Ludevig ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:REFBOMBed article written in a promotional slant. Of the 50-odd references in this article, most are about the events he has helped organize (not Ludevig himself), passing mentions or non-independent (such as his linkedin profile). GPL93 ( talk) 17:06, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. GPL93 ( talk) 17:06, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. GPL93 ( talk) 17:06, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. GPL93 ( talk) 17:06, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- STRONG KEEPAre you joking? Most top 40 recording artists don't have this much press. It is extremely hard to get noticed and notable in New York and this guy has done it over and over and over. This should not have been nominated for deletion at all. Keep. Luke Kindred ( talk) 19:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- I'm dead serious. The "press" is almost entirely passing mentions, doesn't actually mention Ludevig or are non-reliable sources, like his personal LikenIn or bios on websites of organizations he is affiliated with (see
WP:REFBOMB). My
WP:BEFORE search turned up no
Significant coverage, some of the events that he has helped to organize (namely the
Harlem Cultural Festival) yes but little on Ludevig himself. Also, given that this article is written like a glowing bio
and the subject himself has added a photo gives me concern that there has been coordination between Ludevig and the creating editor.
GPL93 (
talk) 19:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- First - I disclaim any connection with the subject whatsoever. I understand your concerns about
WP:REFBOMB but it seems essential to make an article work about anyone whose life work is promoting, organizing, and supporting the works of other people. Ludevig is a promoter so we would not expect to find sources about him, but about the projects and people which he works with, and this is what we have. Consider a subject like
David Geffen without the sex scandals and philanthropy - he is one of the most famous promoters in the world, yet he is not written about in books, is rarely interviewed in magazines, there are very few sources about him at all. But he is undeniably notable because of the success of the musicians he promoted.
Luke Kindred (
talk) 20:10, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- 1) I wasn't worried about you given you aren't the creator of the article. There is, however, an almost certain connection between the article's creator and Ludevig himself. 2) Then he doesn't meet WP:GNG and therefore doesn't merit article. It's as simple as that. Some of the more reliable sources don't even mention him, the rest are passing mentions (usually quick quote, often with the other organizers). That's not a concern that is refbombing. I can't really find much outside of the Harlem Cultural Festival. Finally, while I understand your sentiments thats not a rationale in line with Wikipedia policy. It's ok for someone to be good at their job or prominent in there field and not have an article even in a highly visible scale. There are many researchers to academics, staffers to politicians, and high level executives in business who undoubtedly do a lot, but don't have articles because they don't meet our notability standards. GPL93 ( talk) 20:39, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- First - I disclaim any connection with the subject whatsoever. I understand your concerns about
WP:REFBOMB but it seems essential to make an article work about anyone whose life work is promoting, organizing, and supporting the works of other people. Ludevig is a promoter so we would not expect to find sources about him, but about the projects and people which he works with, and this is what we have. Consider a subject like
David Geffen without the sex scandals and philanthropy - he is one of the most famous promoters in the world, yet he is not written about in books, is rarely interviewed in magazines, there are very few sources about him at all. But he is undeniably notable because of the success of the musicians he promoted.
Luke Kindred (
talk) 20:10, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- I'm dead serious. The "press" is almost entirely passing mentions, doesn't actually mention Ludevig or are non-reliable sources, like his personal LikenIn or bios on websites of organizations he is affiliated with (see
WP:REFBOMB). My
WP:BEFORE search turned up no
Significant coverage, some of the events that he has helped to organize (namely the
Harlem Cultural Festival) yes but little on Ludevig himself. Also, given that this article is written like a glowing bio
and the subject himself has added a photo gives me concern that there has been coordination between Ludevig and the creating editor.
GPL93 (
talk) 19:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - Given the discussion above, this one is a close call but I must side with the nominator. Ludevig has indeed been mentioned in some reliable sources but they are always very brief mentions in reports that are actually about the events he organized. That means he is a couple of degrees of separation away from personal notability, and this article is functioning as a personal promotion. There is an article for the notable event Harlem Cultural Festival, and there is no problem with mentioning Ludevig's behind-the-scenes work at that article. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 15:54, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Successful this person may be, but without meeting RS standards (i.e., something more than being tangentially mentioned in lots of articles on other subjects) it's a no-go. Curiously, the "strong keep" argument even acknowledges it's the project he is involved with that gets the press rather than the person--and that there is precisely why the projects, and not the person, are notable. Redirect to Harlem Cultural Festival, or to Harlem Arts Festival if someone ever creates a page for it. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 22:58, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Tone is promotional personal promotion and doesn't meet Wikipedia minimum RS requirements. Limpbreaker ( talk) 15:11, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
- Possible Redirect to Harlem Cultural Festival where he is mentioned as a co-producer - Epinoia ( talk) 03:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.