- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Tone 17:24, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Naomi Hunter
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Local coverage which doesn't appear to meet WP:GNG, and does not meet WP:NPOL, was discussed briefly on talk page, but one editor insists on re-creating. Onel5969 TT me 17:03, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Onel5969 TT me 17:03, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose - Leader of a provincial political party in Canada. Notable enough for me. Me-123567-Me ( talk) 17:06, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Deletion alerts! at WikiProject Green Politics. Me-123567-Me ( talk) 17:25, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete, I agree with Onel's assessment regarding notability, the best coverage I was able to find searching online was this local coverage. It's possible that it may be more appropriate to redirect the page to Saskatchewan Green Party, but this is complicated by the existence of a Naomi Hunter in the Metal Gear Solid series. At this point in time, deletion to allow for search results is probably the best option. signed, Rosguill talk 17:30, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Doesn't meet WP:NPOL. Hunter is the leader of a small provincial political party. Lefcentreright Discuss 17:38, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete While my own personal opinion might be a little more flexible on this, the past several deletion discussions we have had about provincial Green Party leaders has led to deletion. At this current point, fails NPOL. Bkissin ( talk) 18:10, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Lightburst ( talk) 18:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. Lightburst ( talk) 18:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I haven't searched rigorously for sourcing myself (on mobile, might do it later), but the author of the article has a number of user boxes declaring their support for the party this person is involved with. I do not mean to imply that there is anything rising to a COI, I'm a member of a party myself and don't consider myself to have one, but it's possible that their view on whether the subject's high office within that party offers a route to notability might be somewhat clouded. I'd urge them to ensure that their arguments are well-grounded in specific policies or guidelines and supported by excellent sources, rather than assuring us that it's 'notable enough for them'. GirthSummit (blether) 18:43, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete unless the article actually sees improvement. Being leader of a minor political party without legislative representation is not an "inherently" notable role per WP:NPOL, so it does not singlehandedly exempt her from having to get over WP:GNG on her sourcing. But all we've got here so far is one primary source that she wrote herself, and the initial same-day blip of "party selects new leader" coverage, with not a single source dated either before or after March 1. No prejudice against recreation in the future if and when there's much more substance that can be written about her, and much more sources that can be brought to bear — but this, as written, is not yet enough. Bearcat ( talk) 21:38, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete There is no reason to treat leaders of parties with 0 seats as default notable. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 13:56, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
- Soft Oppose - Coverage of Hunter does not seem to be overwhelming, but there is some coverage. There was some election coverage concerning her unsuccessful federal run (eg. [1], [2], & [3]. There is also some coverage of her leadership victory one of which is included in the article and others (eg. [4] & [5]). There are only two parties in Saskatchewan that are currently represented in the legislature. Based on the 2016 election results, the third largest party is the Saskatchewan Liberal Party, which received 3.59% of the vote (and no seats). The fourth largest is the Green Party of Saskatchewan, which received 1.83% of the vote (and no seats). While WP:OTHERSTUFF arguments are not determinative of anything, it is worth noting that both the current Liberal leader, Naveed Anwar, and the former leader, Darrin Lamoureux, have their own articles despite failing WP:NPOL. I am not sure whether the Green leader is notable enough for an article, but I would probably err on the side of caution this close to an election (one is required before October 26, 2020). If she is included in election debates, I think that would buttress her claim to notability.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 23:05, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
- Coverage of an unsuccessful candidacy for political office does not assist in bolstering a person's notability — every candidate in every election everywhere can always show some evidence of campaign coverage, but every candidate in every election everywhere is not notable enough for a Wikipedia article. To be encyclopedically notable just for being a candidate, a person has to either (a) pass another notability test completely independently of her candidacy, such that her failure to pass
WP:NPOL is irrelevant because of her preexisting notability, or (b) show that her candidacy was so much more special than everybody else's candidacies, in some way that would pass the
ten year test for enduring significance, such that she has a credible claim to being a special case of greater notability than most other unelected candidates. Simply being a candidate, however, is not a notability clincher, and neither is being the leader of a minor political party without legislative representation.
Bearcat (
talk) 00:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Coverage of a losing campaign can certainly add to
WP:GNG. None of our policies say that we can't consider it, only that it may not on its own amount to notability. You say {tq|Simply being... the leader of a minor political party without legislative representation" is not a notability clincher. Perhaps, not but it is certainly a significant factor. The Greens are not just any other political party. While they do not have "legislative representation" in Saskatchewan they are the official opposition in PEI, are in a supply and confidence agreement with the government in British Columbia and have three elected MPs federally, one MPP in Ontario and two in New Brunswick (or did at dissolution). They also have elected councillors in Vancouver and Burnaby. Liberals
Naveed Anwar and
Darrin Lamoureux, who I mentioned above, have little notability except as unelected leaders of the
Saskatchewan Liberal Party (which hasn't held a seat since 2003). If they are notable it is only because of the historical status of that party, or the Liberal brand federally and in other provinces. The Greens are a party which has been gaining significance federally and in many provinces. Neither you nor I know where they will be in ten years or how
Naomi Hunter will be viewed at that time, but this regular "leader of minor political party without legislative representation" shtick is particularly unhelpful.--
Darryl Kerrigan (
talk) 18:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I think that the minor political party argument is a bit of a red herring, considering that NPOL doesn't include any provisions for establishing notability on the basis of positions in party leadership. If additional coverage can't be found for Anwar or Lamoureux, those articles should probably be deleted too. signed,
Rosguill
talk 18:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- That seems to be a naive omission. But sure, if we are going to delete any unelected politician who has led a party (regardless of the significance of that party), let's at least be consistent. I have nominated
Darrin Lamoureux and
Naveed Anwar. Score one for
the deletionists.--
Darryl Kerrigan (
talk) 19:06, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I usually wait until there's a consensus in the first discussion, and until I've completed a proper BEFORE, before actually nominating the articles. My comment was simply intended to state that those articles, as written, do not clearly make a case for meeting notability guidelines. signed, Rosguill talk 19:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- That seems to be a naive omission. But sure, if we are going to delete any unelected politician who has led a party (regardless of the significance of that party), let's at least be consistent. I have nominated
Darrin Lamoureux and
Naveed Anwar. Score one for
the deletionists.--
Darryl Kerrigan (
talk) 19:06, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I think that the minor political party argument is a bit of a red herring, considering that NPOL doesn't include any provisions for establishing notability on the basis of positions in party leadership. If additional coverage can't be found for Anwar or Lamoureux, those articles should probably be deleted too. signed,
Rosguill
talk 18:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Coverage of a losing campaign can certainly add to
WP:GNG. None of our policies say that we can't consider it, only that it may not on its own amount to notability. You say {tq|Simply being... the leader of a minor political party without legislative representation" is not a notability clincher. Perhaps, not but it is certainly a significant factor. The Greens are not just any other political party. While they do not have "legislative representation" in Saskatchewan they are the official opposition in PEI, are in a supply and confidence agreement with the government in British Columbia and have three elected MPs federally, one MPP in Ontario and two in New Brunswick (or did at dissolution). They also have elected councillors in Vancouver and Burnaby. Liberals
Naveed Anwar and
Darrin Lamoureux, who I mentioned above, have little notability except as unelected leaders of the
Saskatchewan Liberal Party (which hasn't held a seat since 2003). If they are notable it is only because of the historical status of that party, or the Liberal brand federally and in other provinces. The Greens are a party which has been gaining significance federally and in many provinces. Neither you nor I know where they will be in ten years or how
Naomi Hunter will be viewed at that time, but this regular "leader of minor political party without legislative representation" shtick is particularly unhelpful.--
Darryl Kerrigan (
talk) 18:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Coverage of an unsuccessful candidacy for political office does not assist in bolstering a person's notability — every candidate in every election everywhere can always show some evidence of campaign coverage, but every candidate in every election everywhere is not notable enough for a Wikipedia article. To be encyclopedically notable just for being a candidate, a person has to either (a) pass another notability test completely independently of her candidacy, such that her failure to pass
WP:NPOL is irrelevant because of her preexisting notability, or (b) show that her candidacy was so much more special than everybody else's candidacies, in some way that would pass the
ten year test for enduring significance, such that she has a credible claim to being a special case of greater notability than most other unelected candidates. Simply being a candidate, however, is not a notability clincher, and neither is being the leader of a minor political party without legislative representation.
Bearcat (
talk) 00:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:POLOUTCOMES. We've been over this many times. State/provincial leaders of minor parties are almost never notable. Bearian ( talk) 16:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 20:47, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.