Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Macklemore_&_Ryan_Lewis References

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Mark Arsten ( talk) 01:51, 25 January 2014 (UTC) reply

Macklemore & Ryan Lewis

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I don't see the purpose of having this article whatsoever. It's practically a disambiguation page directing people to Macklemore and Ryan Lewis. There's no reason that any song that these two have collaborated on should be referenced as being "by Macklemore & Ryan Lewis" instead of "by Macklemore and Ryan Lewis". The fact that they claim that they are a duo doesn't match with the existing practice on Wikipedia that treats the two separately.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 13:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply

comment These guys are big enough that separate articles could be justified if macklemore and ryan lewis were simply biographical articles about the individual people while macklemore & ryan lewis focused on the group. Much like having an article on the the jonas brothers but then having separate articles for each individual brother. I feel like a tourist ( talk) 14:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
The separate articles are justified. This "duo" article is not.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 15:09, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
week keep This article does meet WP:GNG so i see no reason to delete it but it is badly written so it wouldn't be the end of the world if it was deleted.-- Jeffrd10 ( talk) 15:02, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
There is no coverage of them as a duo, and that concept does not meet WP:GNG. They meet it separately, but not together, because they are always discussed separately. That is why there is no need for this disambiguation page with references.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 15:06, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
These sources Beg to differ 1 2 3. With the duo Nominated for grammys and ranked on many national music chart. they make WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC-- Jeffrd10 ( talk) 15:25, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Macklemore and Ryan Lewis are notable separately. There is nothing out there that supports an article like this.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 15:48, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
If what you are saying is true about the duo why don't we Delete the article about the Wright brothers or Ben & Jerry's. Duos are famous and can be notable. one more thing many people think of this duo as one so we need some sort of disambiguation page and this article serves that purpose.-- Jeffrd10 ( talk) 16:16, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Orville and Wilbur Wright do not have individual articles. Ben & Jerry's is an article on a company and not its founders Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield. And your argument reeks of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. This article titled "Macklemore & Ryan Lewis" serves no purpose. Most people attribute the performance to Mr. Haggerty, while Mr. Lewis is indeed referenced, that does not mean there needs to be an article with both of their names in the title, particularly when it seems nothing can be said about them other than the fact that they work together.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 16:26, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
I don't understand this line of reasoning, Ryulong. Macklemore & Ryan Lewis released a platinum selling album together. How can it be argued that they're not notable for working together? Anytime an artist sells into the millions, there's always significant coverage. What in the world are you using for search terms if you're not finding info on this? Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply
The point is that there is no reason to have such a short article on this duo when they are barely ever critically recognized as one. There is so much coverage on them individually at Macklemore and Ryan Lewis that this short article that gives absolutely zero context which simply exists as a stepping stone from people linking to Macklemore & Ryan Lewis serves no purpose on this project. The article says nothing. It's just a half-assed disambiguation page being treated as a proper article and neither are necessary for discussion of the subject. It doesn't matter if the two are individually notable. We don't need this page to describe their collaborations at all, particularly when there is zero content on it.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 17:08, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply
I find it hard to believe there's nothing to be said, but if there really isn't, why not just clean up up/convert it to a legit disambiguation page? Its certainly a legitimate search term. Sergecross73 msg me 17:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Because there's nothing to disambiguate.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 18:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Strong keep. This joint page serves a great utility for our readers as some materials are as a duo, some others are uniquely to Macklemore in collaboration with some other artist and some uniquely to Ryan Lewis. Many will search under this joint title (after all they are notoriously known as a duo with some) and it will conveniently lead to both articles. werldwayd ( talk) 18:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
So this is effectively a disambiguation page? Why do we need to make the link "[[Macklemore & Ryan Lewis]]" instead of "[[Macklemore]] & [[Ryan Lewis]]"?— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 19:04, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
If there is concensus, I have nothing against the page becoming a disambiguation page without any references appearing. Of course a redirect of our choice to either artist will not do. We need two lines, each linking to this or that artist. In such a case, I have no objection. werldwayd ( talk) 19:24, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
But there's nothing to disambiguate. This page serves no purpose.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 17:06, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Keep - Considering this is the cover of their platinum selling album. That alone is going to lead to plenty of coverage. Certainly a plausible search term. Even if only a redirect. Shouldn't be deleted though. Sergecross73 msg me 19:18, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
- Also note this EP werldwayd ( talk) 19:22, 14 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Comment - I understand the reasoning for Keep but the only real reason for keeping the page is because of their collaboration on The Heist and the singles released from it– Which isn't protocol on WP for other high profile hip-hop/rap collaborations eg. Jay-Z & Kanye West for Watch the Throne and "Otis", "Niggas in Paris" etc. so seems pretty redundant. DavidMichaelScott– talk 01:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Yeah, and even with the "VS EP" it's treating the two artists separately and it's not even the same way that they refer to them on the Heist. There is nothing on this "Macklemore & Ryan Lewis" page. Period. Anything that even remotely discusses their collaboration is probably much better treated on their separate articles.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 04:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 03:03, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 03:03, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply

Delete Macklemore and Lewis are clearly notable, but as a duo they are not. The sources are about them, not as a duo. Also, where the heck would this redirect to? Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 03:07, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 03:08, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply

They released a platinum selling album as duo - how are they not notable as a duo? If the sources currently there aren't sufficient, that's fine, but a release of this capacity certainly garners plenty of coverage that could be found. These judgments are to be made about what info is out there, not just what's currently in the article. Platinum selling collaborations are just about always going to be able to garner up enough coverage to meet the WP:GNG. (Disclosure - I don't like these artists at all, but I can certainly recognize that the world can't seem to stop talking about these guys.) Sergecross73 msg me 16:57, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply
But they aren't reported on as a duo because they have work that precedes their collaboration.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 17:35, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply
I think that's just blatantly false. Why in the world would they only cover them separately when they did the album together? If that's how it worked, no supergroup (music) articles would exist, because they'd be "redundant". Its quite the opposite, usually these "supergroup" types are easy "homeruns" when it comes to notability. Your whole stance flies directly contrary to WP:BAND point #6. Sergecross73 msg me 20:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC) reply
These two performers are not in a band together. They are two independently notable artists who have collaborated on a single major release album together, much like Jay-Z and Kanye West did.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 06:30, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
I think you're splitting hairs. They're very much so an musical ensemble, which is covered by WP:BAND. Sergecross73 msg me 17:52, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
They are more like Jay Z and Kanye working on Watch the Throne than they are Simon & Garfunkel. And no one has written anything about them as a "band" on Wikipedia because everyone but werldwayd sees fit to discuss them separately.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Comment - A small sample of the huge amount of coverage they receive as a duo, to dispell the ridiculous notion that they aren't covered as a duo:
I mean, seriously, we're talking about all over the place, including the highest level, indisputably reliable sources here. The article needs help, sure, but AFD is not clean up. It clearly meets our notability standards. Sergecross73 msg me 18:01, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
This still isn't the reason I sent it to AFD. We have no purpose for this page as a search item or a "disambiguation". And people seem to prefer to discuss the two on their separate pages.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:53, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
I'm sorry, but if notability isn't the issue, and it doesn't fall anywhere under WP:NOT, "no purpose" strikes me as a really lazy/sloppy/poor nomination. Your lack of ability to envision the purpose of an article isn't a valid deletion reason. Sergecross73 msg me 04:59, 19 January 2014 (UTC) reply

Keep — Seriously, what a extreme failure of WP:BEFORE. Neither of them were even notable enough for Wikipedia articles (especially Lewis), until they started collaborating as a duo. If anything they are covered more as a duo, then they are as solo artists. The page in its current form (as a dab), is just fine. They clearly pass WP:MUSICBIO and its really no question about it. STATic message me! 19:36, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Notability or lack thereof is not the reason this page was proposed for deletion. This page serves no purpose on this project because there is no need to use [[Macklemore & Ryan Lewis]] as a link rather than linking to their names separately. Unless there are plans to merge the pages in the future, we just don't need this page.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:53, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Generally speaking, we do not link to this page. However, is it not a very likely search term? It has been viewed 24,129 in the last 90 days even though it is linked unnecessarily on a few pages. I am certain if it was deleted it would be a mainstay at the top of the WP:TOPRED and be recreated. The comparison to Kanye x Jay-Z is very very very off. That was a collaboration between two solo artists, this is a duo consisting of a MC and producer, such as Gang Starr and Pete Rock & CL Smooth were before them. STATic message me! 21:06, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
I doubt it is a very good search term because you get "Macklemore" as a result before you would "Macklemore & Ryan Lewis" and I doubt it will be super linked to (it's not taking much work to remove the internal links while treating it as a dab page).— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 21:22, 18 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Keep-clearly notable. Flat Out let's discuss it 05:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Notability isn't what's being called into question here. It's utility of this particular article in the grand scheme of things on Wikipedia. Have you even bothered to look at the page? It's three lines, two of which are just links to the other pages.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 07:03, 19 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Comment- Since when do we use AfD to cleanup poorly written articles? There are other duous on wikipedia who have articles on the partnership as well as singularly. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:41, 19 January 2014 (UTC) reply
It's not that it's poorly written the page just serves no purpose. Macklemore released music before his collaboration with Ryan Lewis and this page has not changed one bit over the past year it has existed, and people seem to be spending more time and energy in the musicians' separate pages than any barely linked to (even before I treated it as a dab page) combination of their names. It is a disambiguation page when there's nothing to disambiguate. It does not need to exist.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 11:51, 19 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Keep: Is it useful? Yes. Its a reasonable search term.-- Milowent • ^has
spoken 20:38, 21 January 2014 (UTC) reply
No it isn't. You get "Macklemore" in the search bar before you get "Macklemore & Ryan Lewis".— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:42, 21 January 2014 (UTC) reply

And you get this page as the second google result for "Macklemore & Ryan Lewis". I win. Seriously, if we are debating at this level, its a waste of time to argue for deletion as long as its a plausible search term.-- Milowent • ^has
spoken 21:21, 21 January 2014 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.