From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:07, 23 July 2017 (UTC) reply

List of bus stations in Singapore

List of bus stations in Singapore (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Most of these terminals have been deleted at various AFDs so someones now decided to just merge and create one huge article - great idea however A) It goes against consensus and B) The article fails GNG. – Davey2010 Talk 12:58, 7 July 2017 (UTC)(updated 17:12, 7 July 2017 (UTC)) reply

  • Withdrawn - I don't agree one bit this should be kept however the community wants it kept so so be it, Anyway can't close as delete !votes present however regardless I still withdraw, Thanks, – Davey2010 Talk 23:19, 19 July 2017 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Comment What consensus does this go against, Davey2010 and where was that consensus formed? That individual articles may be judged non-notable does not mean that a list is not appropriate. Did you do a WP:BEFORE search to determine that no sources exist that would satisfy the WP:GNG? What were your search parameters, if so. DES (talk) DESiegel Contribs 15:53, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • ( edit conflict) In some ways I do feel it goes against the consensus and in some ways is essentially gaming AFD however all that being said if sources can be found then I'd be more than happy to withdraw. – Davey2010 Talk 16:24, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
Discussion inregards to "AFD Gaming"
  • The consensus of those that are currently at AFD, Sure some haven't actually been deleted yet however consensus is going that way, If consensus was delete those individual ones then yes it does go against consensus, My search parameters were all terminals listed. – Davey2010 Talk 16:17, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Note that WP:LISTN says, in significant part: Notability of lists (whether titled as "List of Xs" or "Xs") is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable, although editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items or those with Wikipedia articles. ... Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability. Editors are still urged to demonstrate list notability via the grouping itself before creating stand-alone lists. Thus consensus on the notability of individual bus stations does not imply consensus on a list article. DES (talk) DESiegel Contribs 16:22, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Unfortunately we edit conflicted - I personally believe it's GAMING AFD in some respects but regardless of all that if sources can be found I'd be more than happy to withdraw. – Davey2010 Talk 16:26, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • I don't see how it is gaming. A list may be legitimate when individual stubs are not. On the other hand, just because it is a list does not prove that it is notable or appropriate, sources about the bus stations as a group or enough of them individually must be found. To be clear, i am not (yet) favoring keep or delete here, i am merely pointing out that the parameters for such a list are different from tjhose for an individual short article, and that we have a number of "List of" bus station articles. This last is an WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument, and so of limited weight. DES (talk) DESiegel Contribs 16:36, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • I suppose I only think it's GAMING because the text was copied with it - We have List of bus stations in Wales which only include the name and opening dates etc not the whole text but ofcourse I do see where you're coming from and actually do agree with you. – Davey2010 Talk 16:55, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Comment on attribution If this article is kept, the articles from which text was copied should be redirected here rather than deleted, to preserve attribution. DES (talk) DESiegel Contribs 16:36, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete (1) fails to make a claim for notability in the article's lead. (2) fails the general notability guidelines for lack of significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. (3) fails GEOFEAT as a man-made place for the same lack. Many artificial geographical features may be mentioned in plenty of reliable sources, but they may not necessarily be notable. The inclusion of a man-made geographical feature on maps or in directories is insufficient to establish topic notability. It is in the nature of bus stops, and metro stops, to be verifiabile but not notable. The same is true of lists of such stops/terminals. (4) It fails Stand-alone lists for lacking reliable sources that treat this topic in a non-directory manner. (5) Lastly, the policy at WP:NOTTRAVEL indicates that Wikipedia is not a travel guide. -- Bejnar ( talk) 19:30, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
I am not sure how this article is different from List of bus stations in Wales, List of Greyhound Bus stations, List of Perth bus stations, List of bus and coach stations in London. I just started working on it a few hours ago and I am still improving it. But all of these articles have the same problems that you have mentioned. Do you think these should be deleted as well?-- DreamLinker ( talk) 22:31, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
I cannot answer that absolutely without looking at each individual article in particular, but the same principles would apply in analysis. -- Bejnar ( talk) 02:44, 8 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This article is a list of Bus Terminals and interchanges (not regular bus stops) in Singapore. I incorporated information from the individual articles, all of which were nominated for deletion (see list of articles here). This is helping to preserve the content ( WP:PRESERVE). I just started working on it today, so it will take me a bit of time to clean up and add more references and organise the information. I can understand that Wikipedia shouldn't have a list of bus stops as it is not a travel guide. But bus terminals are typically more significant and used by more people. This article is similar to List of bus stations in Wales, List of Greyhound Bus stations, List of Perth bus stations, List of bus and coach stations in London. I searched an I am able to find decent references for some of them (and I am continuing to add them). I am pretty sure there would be more which is not available online.-- DreamLinker ( talk) 22:46, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
There are references available about bus terminals/interchanges as a whole and also about individual ones.
I am also finding that similar articles about bus stops in Europe/America/Australia seems to have been kept. For example, Silver Line (MBTA) seems to have a list of all the bus stations, even though these are ordinary bus stops in a BRT line. Some of the bus stations seem to have their own articles as well Melnea Cass Boulevard (MBTA station), Lenox Street (MBTA station). I am not sure how many of these actually have a lot of references.-- DreamLinker ( talk) 22:56, 7 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Except the straitstimes.com one none of these work - It just redirects me to the homepage so these cannot be used and plus judging by the title here these are just passing mentions and not indepth coverage, Also as noted by Charles OTHERSTUFFEXISTS isn't a valid argument to make either, Anyway as I said judging from the titles these seem to be just passing mentions, I appreciate you want this article saved however inshort there is no notability and it was noted in the individual article AFDs there were only passing mentions found (which I'm assuming were the above ?).... – Davey2010 Talk 22:48, 8 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Could you give me an example of which one doesn't work? There is only 1 link I wasn't able to access. Every other link works. I am not able to understand why are these passing mentions. In quite a few of the sources I quoted above, the entire news article is about bus terminals (not bus stops).-- DreamLinker ( talk) 06:38, 9 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. The existence of similar articles is a dubious argument. See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. We do not keep lists of non-notable public facilities such as gas stations, pharmacies etc., so why bus stands? This is just transport fancruft. Charles ( talk) 21:59, 8 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • My main argument for keeping is that there are enough sources (as I listed above, and as I am continuously adding to the article). Many of these sources are full length news articles. I would be happy to learn why these are not suitable. I believe these sources provide significant coverage. If you could point out what is wrong with each source, I would be happy to try and rectify it.-- DreamLinker ( talk) 17:33, 9 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • As for the point in WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, I understand that it is not a good argument. But that said, I feel it is unfair that London (a city in UK) has so many articles on bus stops Category:Bus stations in London and many of these are not sourced or have much fewer sources than this article. There are entire articles on bus routes Category:Bus_routes_in_London with few sources. List of bus routes in London has so many links to bus stations in London. Yet, these are allowed to exist. I am pretty sure no one will tag these for deletion. There are even articles which are very similar to this list, such as Bus depots of MTA Regional Bus Operations, an article which lists various bus depots and a bit of their history.-- DreamLinker ( talk) 09:59, 10 July 2017 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, So Why 09:07, 15 July 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Keep – Qualifies for an article per WP:NOTDUP relative to Category:Bus stations in Singapore. I have expanded the article to include the category entries. From this, the article can be further expanded with descriptions, sources, images, etc. The article could also be further improved by copy editing to make the content in its Bus terminals section more concise. North America 1000 10:15, 16 July 2017 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_bus_stations_in_Singapore&oldid=1077961816"