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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 17:20, 5 May 2020 (UTC) reply

List of Toho alien races

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List of Toho alien races (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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List of aliens (alien species?) invented by a particular movie studio. Totally unreferenced, fails WP:NFICTION/GNG. Pure WP:PLOT. My BEFORE does not show any good sources. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs ( talk) 06:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply

*Keep. Praxidiace ( talk) 05:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC)striking LTA impersonating me. Praxidicae ( talk) 12:29, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply

  • Keep: There are dozens of books analyzing the monsters from Toho monster movies. Here are a few:
    • A Critical History and Filmography of Toho's Godzilla Series by David Kalat, McFarland & Co (2017)
    • The Kaiju Film: A Critical Study of Cinema's Biggest Monsters by Jason Barr, McFarland & Co (2016)
    • Monsters are Attacking Tokyo! The Incredible World of Japanese Fantasy Films by Stuart Galbraith, Feral House (1998)
    • Eiji Tsuburaya, Master of Monsters: Defending the Earth with Ultraman, Godzilla in the Golden Age of Japanese Science Fiction Film by August Ragone, Chronicle Books (2007)
    • The Official Godzilla Compendium: A 40 Year Retrospective by J.D. Lees and Mark Cerasini, Random House (1998)
    • Godzilla on My Mind: Fifty Years of the King of Monsters by William M. Tsutsi, Macmillan (2017)
This subject easily passes notability. — Toughpigs ( talk) 06:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
This is little better than WP:GOOGLEHITS test. There is no evidence that any of those books discuss Toho alien races. They are just sources for Godzilla. It's like saying that all Pokemons are notable because there is a book or two about Pikachu. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:29, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
They are not Google hits or blog posts. These are comprehensive non-fiction works of film criticism, specifically about the monsters and aliens in Toho's films, published by reliable, independent publishers. I suspect that you have not looked closely at any of these books, and that you are assuming that they are unreliable based on IDONTLIKEIT. I would suggest that you learn more about the subject. —  Toughpigs ( talk) 06:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
The onus is on you to show us that those books discuss the topic. All I see now is that you found some books with appear to be slightly relevant to the topic (Godzilla is an alien from Toho movies, and those books are about Godzilla). However, as this AfD is not about Godzilla, those sources don't appear to be very relevant. PS. Also, as noted by Rorshacma, we are not talking about a list of kaiju Godzilla monsters, but about a much more fringe topic of alien civilizations which occasionally, but not always, created some of them. Further, this article doesn't even focus on the aliens from the MonsterVerse (wrong company, btw) or Godzilla (franchise), it combines info on all aliens invented by this particular studio, some of which, as noted by Erik, does not even share the same universe. I think you really have little ground to stand on here - and the fact that you presented a list of books again sadly confirms that all you did was a quick book search and hit, without not only reading them, but without even reading the article we are dealing with here. Please try to read the articles (and sources) before citing them. Thank you, -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:02, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 09:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE as having no context or reason why these alien races must be grouped in a list. We don't have "List of 20th Century Fox alien races". Unnecessary, since the alien races can be explained on their respective kaiju movie pages. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 11:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Delete since I am not seeing sources group alien races from all Toho films, which seems a bit arbitrary because Toho has non-Godzilla films. I could understand lists grouping certain elements across Godzilla films (like his enemies or even aliens if more sources exist), but here we have films like The Mysterians and Battle in Outer Space that are unrelated to Godzilla. Erik ( talk |  contrib) ( ping me) 12:59, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • KEEP Plenty of them have their own articles making this a valid list article. Category:Toho Monsters list 27 articles for these characters plus this list. Category:Godzilla characters has 32 entries in it. Should the list be renamed List of Toho monsters and include things from both of those list together? Dream Focus 13:43, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • As far as I can tell none of these have their own articles. Some of the individual monsters that these alien races created/used and the movies they appeared in certainly do, but I'm not finding a single one of these listed alien races that have an individual article. The characters listed here are not the monsters themselves, so it would make no sense to conflate them with those monsters. Rorshacma ( talk) 15:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - This is not a list of the actual monsters from Toho films, who have quite a bit more notability, but of the alien races that, quite often, only appeared in a single movie. The article is completely comprised entirely of unsourced, in-universe plot summaries of the movies they appeared in. Several of the entries here are not even alien races. While I haven't personally seen all of the sources that are presented above, I have actually read several of them over the years, and the coverage of the alien races is limited to, again, nothing but plot summaries for the individual movies they appeared in. And, taking a quick look via google books on the ones I'm not familiar with, I'm finding nothing but more of the same. There is no coverage discussing the concept of aliens in the films as an overall topic. Rorshacma ( talk) 15:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - There seems to be some confusion I'm noticing with some of the votes above. This list is not about the actual Kaiju from the Toho films. Its not even about the handful of Kaiju that happen to come from outer space. It is about the alien civilizations that tend to serve as one-shot antagonists in some of the individual films. Sources or other Wikipedia articles that show notability on the topic of the Kaiju themselves are not actually relevant to the subject of this particular list. Rorshacma ( talk) 15:22, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, as stated above, this is not a list of Toho monsters, this is a list specifically of species from Toho movies that just so happened to come from outer space. That is not a topic which passes LISTN, as the article is completely unsourced. The article also fails WP:PLOT as it is written from an entirely in-universe perspective. Devonian Wombat ( talk) 05:40, 29 April 2020 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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