The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 18:03, 29 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Liberalism in Israel

Liberalism in Israel (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)

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I believe this article should be deleted because it doesn't cite a single source. I believe WP:TNT applies. The topic itself may be notable but it needs to go through the AfC process to ensure WP:V is met. ImTheIP ( talk) 02:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. ImTheIP ( talk) 02:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. ImTheIP ( talk) 02:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete Article is not about liberalism in Israel, i.e. an ideology with its tenets and proponents, rather a history of political parties considered to be on the left, without sources tying them together. Could certainly be recreated with the former as its subject. Reywas92 ^Talk 04:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC) reply

User:Reywas92, "a history of political parties considered to be on the left"??? The Liberal Party (Israel) was on the right, as was Kulanu. Both merged into the Likud. Zehut is also on the right. Most other liberal parties in Israel were centrist. Maybe give this another look? gidonb ( talk) 00:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC) reply

"considered to be liberal" then. But without sources discussing their ideology, the content of the article does not match the name. It should be renamed to History of liberal parties in Israel if kept – with sources. Reywas92 ^Talk 00:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Reywas92, there are three references in the article so you may already want to change your preferences. I'm not getting into someone else's decisions. Was only wondering what you meant since liberalism is such a significant political ideology in Israel, not in particular identified with the left... gidonb ( talk) 01:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Again, all of these sources are generic sources about news about political parties, not about the ideology of liberalism in Israel. The subject of this article is History of liberal parties in Israel and the current title is inappropriate because the article and its news source do not describe what liberalism means there. If the content were more of "liberal parties in Israel have generally advocated for X, Y, and Z policies. They have implemented and advocated for [these[ policies in these ways. Major intellectual figures in Israeli liberalism include A, B, and C, who have held [these] positions." and then sourced to references that actually discuss liberalism then the current title would be appropriate. Perhaps that was why I was confused about the left-right spectrum, becuase this article does not help place the reader in it, nor describes what actually makes these parties and politicians liberal, rather just gives random facts about the formation and electoral results of parties. If liberalism is such a significant ideology, tell me what that means and what it is with respect to Israeli political economy! I'm happy to keep if renamed, else it needs to be substantially rewritten. Reywas92 ^Talk 06:42, 24 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Liberalism in Iran and Liberalism in the United States are better examples of what this sort of article should look like – obviously not needing to be so long, but actually telling me what liberalism represents. I would still say to delete if it's just a timeline, sourced or not, because that's not about liberalism, that's just facts about party history. Anyway, thank you for starting to work on the article and I hope to see it become something great! Reywas92 ^Talk 06:52, 24 November 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete, per WP:TNT, article is currently nothing but WP:OR. Devonian Wombat ( talk) 23:56, 22 November 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep. It's a great timeline of liberal movements in Israel. Highly notable and really organizes where and when movements were established and where and when they merged, if at all. Just added the first reference. WP:TNT does not apply. WP:NEXIST does. gidonb ( talk) 01:25, 23 November 2020 (UTC) reply

I don't think one reference saves the article. :P For the record, the "no references" meta-message that you removed had been at the top of the article since 2007. ImTheIP ( talk) 01:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC) reply

Does it matter??? As soon as there's a reference, the template shouldn't be there. Articles are evaluated by sources, not by references. Israel has a very long tradition of liberalism, from well before independence. Plenty of books and articles have been written on the subject so WP:NEXIST applies. My opinion is good for me and WP. There is no need for nominators to start commenting on every single person who disagrees with their proposal! It's rather annoying. Especially when the nominator has so little of relevance to say. gidonb ( talk) 03:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep. The article is part of a series and it just cannot be deleted. There is surely a need of sources (and I am sure this debate will bring much needed improvements), but, as the nominator acknowledged, "the topic itself may be notable". The topic is definitely notable and in AfD discussions we do not evaluate the quality of an article and/or its sources, but mainly, if not solely, the subject's notability. -- Checco ( talk) 05:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep: The list needs work, but that is not an argument for deletion. Liberalism exists as a political expression in Israel, the links in the list demonstrate this (even if it needs work), I don't think anyone disputes seriously disputes that Liberalism in Israel is a political force, even if minor or waning. The article is also a timeline, so it functions as a list and does meet the criteria for WP:CLN to function as a chronological navigation list.   //  Timothy ::  talk  19:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep: Are we to WP:TNT every time a cleanup template sticks around too long? Absurd. In any event, it's got footnotes now. As noted, we have articles of this kind about other countries, and while this one may need some cleanup there's plenty there that's salvageable. ∴ ZX95 ^{[ discuss} 06:20, 27 November 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep: in line with sister articles about currents of liberalism in other countries. I agree that this article should have more sources, but that is no strong argument by itself to delete it.-- Autospark ( talk) 21:48, 27 November 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.