- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Lourdes 07:19, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Killing of Stephen Carroll
- Killing of Stephen Carroll ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Murder of Stephen Carroll ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Taking into account the killing wasn't part of a broad event and definetely no further outcome of it, I am not sure it should be an independant article. Arthistorian1977 ( talk) 21:10, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Keep It is part of the
Dissident Irish Republican campaign and has been covered enough to have its own stand alone article.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 21:16, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
NOTE: Deleted vote of indefinitely banned sockpuppet (see [1]). Disclosure: my vote concurs, as per below. ( Quis separabit? 00:40, 4 July 2017 (UTC))
- Keep It is part of the
Dissident Irish Republican campaign and has been covered enough to have its own stand alone article.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 21:16, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:47, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Strong keep Stephen Carroll was the first police officer to have been killed in Northern Ireland since the Good Friday Agreement. It was heavily covered by the media, so to question its notability is ludicrous. Maybe the article lacks some info and should focus on political reaction, but the topic itself should be kept and improved upon. st 170 e 21:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 21:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 21:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 21:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. st 170 e 21:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
- Due to its notability it merits being kept however maybe a better title if one can be thought of?
Mabuska
(talk) 00:06, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- @
Mabuska: Murder of Stephen Carroll may be more fitting.
st
170
e 00:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Murder is no different to killing.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 08:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Actually yes it is different. Murder is defined as unlawful killing, unless you believe this was a lawful killing? I agree with St170e's suggestion.
Mabuska
(talk) 13:01, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- I agree -- the police officer was murdered. It'd be insensitive to say anything else. st 170 e 13:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Even if what you say is true (which it is not) killing is not an incorrect descriptor so I dont see the problem.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 13:48, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Taken from
Murder: '...is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought.' Killing is the actual process in which they die -- the page should be moved to 'Murder of Stephen Carroll'.
st
170
e 16:08, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Killing is an action hence the verb 'to kill'.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 16:12, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- As Mabuska said, murder is unlawful killing. There is precedence for this (see
Murder of Jean McConville). I'm not sure why this is a huge issue.
st
170
e 12:30, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
- Considering Apollo has at AN/I just stated that IRA attacks aren't terrorist incidents and implied that they are are justified means they don't believe that the IRA was capable of murder, just killing. Their view on the article title should be treated with the utmost of suspicion. Mabuska (talk) 21:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
- As Mabuska said, murder is unlawful killing. There is precedence for this (see
Murder of Jean McConville). I'm not sure why this is a huge issue.
st
170
e 12:30, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
- Killing is an action hence the verb 'to kill'.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 16:12, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Taken from
Murder: '...is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought.' Killing is the actual process in which they die -- the page should be moved to 'Murder of Stephen Carroll'.
st
170
e 16:08, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Actually yes it is different. Murder is defined as unlawful killing, unless you believe this was a lawful killing? I agree with St170e's suggestion.
Mabuska
(talk) 13:01, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Murder is no different to killing.
Apollo The Logician (
talk) 08:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- @
Mabuska: Murder of Stephen Carroll may be more fitting.
st
170
e 00:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Delete one event in a wider context, whatever I can't think of a better title and the whole killing/murder issue is long resolved ---- Snowded TALK 07:40, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- This was a major event in Northern Ireland's recent history: the first death of a police officer (by violence) since the peace agreement in 1998 which caused a political 'shitstorm' (apologies for the lack of a better word). 'One event in a wider context' - would you care to elaborate on your views? st 170 e 13:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Keep As Apollo notes, this event marked a significant escalation in dissident Republicanism. Andy Dingley ( talk) 10:55, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Keep this is a significant incident in recent Northern Ireland history as it signifies a deliberate re-escalation in a conflict that most of the world thinks is over. Received massive coverages and very notable. Yes the article title could be changed, but the subject of the article is most definitely notable. Canterbury Tail talk 13:03, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Keep - significan escalation...major event. sources are ok. BabbaQ ( talk) 17:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
- Strong Keep for all the reasons above as well as because the killing(s) marked
an end to the de facto ceasefire that had existeda successful and particularly sanguinary action by dissident republicans, similar to the murder of Ronan Kerr, for instance. Quis separabit? 00:40, 4 July 2017 (UTC) - Keep notable event, covered by an array of reliable sources. — fortuna velut luna 08:55, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
- Keep This subject is covered substantialy in numerous reliable sources. It passes GNG and should be kept. Lacypaperclip ( talk) 05:27, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
- Keep well-sourced, notable terrorist attack. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 10:26, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
- Note: The article has been moved to Murder of Stephen Carroll. • Gene93k ( talk) 17:32, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.