- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 21:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Joe Seddon
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Does not meet WP:GNG, declined 5 times at AfC and ultimately rejected only for the initial editor to move it to mainspace anyway. While the subject has been interviewed or asked to give college application advice in reliable publications, there doesn't appear to be any independent and significant coverage of the subject himself in reliable sources. Perhaps the projects that he is affiliated with, such as Access Oxbridge or Zero Gravity, are notable signed, Rosguill talk 22:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. signed, Rosguill talk 22:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. signed, Rosguill talk 22:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nominator. No indication of passing WP:GNG. Jessicahelen ( talk) 06:10, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Keep article in mainspace. The subject passes
WP:GNG. He has been covered across a number of British and international broadsheet newspapers. Just today he was featured in an article in The Times -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/app-gives-poor-pupils-a-mentor-to-guide-them-into-top-universities-w5mx5877f. The sources referenced are reliable and independent of the subject as they have all been written by independent journalists with no verifiable relation to the subject. Regarding
Rosguill's point on whether it is the subject or his projects which are notable, an examination of the articles reveals that the subject is the overwhelming focus. This can be seen from both the headlines of the articles and the references to his name in the body copy vis-a-vis the name of his projects.
Doogierev (
talk) 18:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- That article is paywalled so I can't review it directly; based on the first few paragraphs that I can see, it could go either way as far as significant coverage. I was, however, able to thoroughly check every other citation, and do not believe that they have GNG-qualifying coverage. signed, Rosguill talk 18:35, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Now I can see where the contention lies. A number of the subject's references are paywalled (the three articles in The Times, and three The Telegraph ones too). I'm not sure what Wikipedia's policy is when it comes to calibrating for this - but it seems unfair to mark down the subject's notability given that these are some of the most widely circulated papers in the UK. If it is of any help (and within Wikipedia's policy), I have a subscription for both papers so would willing to share relevant excerpts with Wikipedia editors so we can all arrive at an informed decision regarding deletion. signed,
Doogierev
talk 00:27, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- The pieces in The Independent I was able to access.
- This one has a clickbait title and is primarily advice given by the subject, which made me discount it off the bat. Looking more carefully, it has some information that might be independent, although the overall framing makes me a bit hesitant.
- This one has no independent coverage of Seddon other than to mention his involvement in founding Access Oxbridge
- This one is written by the subject, and thus does not count toward notability at all
- Overall, I still think that there's a stronger case for notability for Access Oxbridge than for Seddon himself. As for how you can share the paywalled source, I think the best way forward is for you to copy some choice paragraphs that demonstrate independent, significant coverage into this discussion so that others can evaluate them. signed, Rosguill talk 16:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- The pieces in The Independent I was able to access.
- Delete there are not enough sources that are indepdent, 3rd party significant secondary coverage to pass GNG.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 13:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Information from Times articles attached below:
- [1] Name is mentioned seven times in the article. Example quotes: "Joe Seddon graduated from Mansfield College last summer and turned down a job in the City to set up an online mentoring service, Access Oxbridge."; "Mr Seddon is funding the scheme with money from IT consulting that he does on the side, but he is also soliciting donations so that he can expand the programme."
- [2] Referenced seven times in the article. Notable quotes: "Joe Seddon set up Access Oxbridge at his parents’ kitchen table in Morley, West Yorkshire, in 2018 shortly after graduating."; "Last year, Mr Seddon’s first year of operation, he helped to secure 50 offers, which he comfortably surpassed this year. The strike rate also has improved, with a 45 per cent success rate compared with 40 per cent last year."
- [3] Referenced seven times in this article too by name. Notable quotes: "Zero Gravity, an app launched by Joe Seddon, goes live today aiming to connect bright, underprivileged teenagers with students at the 24 Russell Group universities."; "Mr Seddon says that he has some sympathy with the universities which have struggled to come up with high-tech programmes such as Zero Gravity."
- As you can see, certainly not passing references - he is the prime focus of all three of these articles. I think this should be taken into account by reviewers as we make our decision regarding whether to keep this article in the mainspace. signed,
Doogierev
talk 23;03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Based on those quotes, I'd be inclined to consider the first two as examples of significant coverage, although the quotes given for the third example strike me as insufficient. Note, however, that repeated coverage in the same source isn't really what we're looking for when establishing notability, we need to see examples of this sort of coverage across multiple different sources. By my count, we've got the Times and Independent; if people are feeling charitable then perhaps the coverage in the Cambridge student paper can be counted, which would put this subject more or less on the borderline between notable and not. I still think that creating an article about Access Oxbridge would be more appropriate, and note that we already have content that could be useful to start that article at Oxbridge#Access_Oxbridge. signed, Rosguill talk 23:00, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- As you can see, certainly not passing references - he is the prime focus of all three of these articles. I think this should be taken into account by reviewers as we make our decision regarding whether to keep this article in the mainspace. signed,
Doogierev
talk 23;03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for your swift replies, really appreciate having this discussion. Agreed that my choice of quotes from the third article perhaps weren’t the best, I will amend this for all users to make their own decision. Regarding further coverage, there was an article on BBCNews about the subject four months ago, which also included coverage on BBCRadio1 (link expired so not referenced in the article). Have attached the article below for reviewers perusal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51443741 signed, Doogierev talk 01;53, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Keep article in mainspace. The subject passes WP:GNG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexdlp10 ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: This account was created only to only on AFDs on 27 May, a possible sock. 157.37.35.127 ( talk) 19:26, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Salt and Delete per nominator, creators are trying to prove their point which certianly doesn't exists. He has a clear COI or possibly UPE also as suggested by User:Justlettersandnumbers, he also failed to understand Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, Rosguill please burn it. 157.37.73.205 ( talk) 19:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Regardless of how you feel about the article, the above rhetoric is not appropriate. Turn it down a notch, please. signed, Rosguill talk 19:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- For additional context, the subject was featured as the headline article across a number of publications this week. Links attached for reviewers perusal.
- https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2020/05/24/new-start-up-launched-to-increase-university-admissions/
- https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/28/not-everybody-has-a-dedicated-office-space-and-a-macbook-air-oxford-grad-creates-app-to-help-improve-access-to-university-138196/amp
- https://thetab.com/uk/2020/05/28/grad-signs-up-1000-students-to-mentor-disadvantaged-kids-applying-to-uni-158977
Will defer to you Rosguill in terms of how you think we should proceed. If it looks like a consensus can’t be reached I’m happy to recommend the article for deletion. But would be good to get your most up to date thoughts on the status of the article. signed, Doogierev talk 19:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- It's not up to me to close the discussion, another admin will take care of that at some point after 7 days have elapsed since the original listing and will determine the outcome. In addition to being kept or deleted, it's possible that the discussion could be relisted for more time to get more input from editors. signed, Rosguill talk 08:10, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
- Just a quick update for editors that I've added an additional four sources on Seddon which have been published in UK newspapers over the past couple of days.
signed, Doogierev talk 14:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. There are full sources (i.e. articles actually about him) there from the BBC, The Times, Daily Telegraph (the 2020 article), Metro and Yorkshire Post. What am I missing? Black Kite (talk) 00:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.