- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep Sources have been provided and deemed to meet notability. FWIW, there's no BLUDGEON going on (or perhaps it's the other way), since the majority of E.M.Gregory's comments have been in response to questions or comments by Rusf10. ansh 666 21:15, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Jacob J. Schacter
- Jacob J. Schacter ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Does not meet WP:AUTHOR or WP:ACADEMIC. Very little, if any reliable independent source coverage exists. Rusf10 ( talk) 03:04, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York -related deletion discussions. WeAreAllHere talk 03:18, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. WeAreAllHere talk 03:18, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. WeAreAllHere talk 03:19, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Keep head of notable congregation, and as a University Professor passes WP:NACADEMIC #5. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- "5. The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or distinguished professor appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon)." How does he pass that? According to the article, he is just an adjunct professor.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 16:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- check out the faculty bio [
https://www.yu.edu/cjf/about/senior-staff" "University Professor of Jewish History and Jewish Thought," is a title given to him as a leading scholar who confers prestige on the University by holding a post that requires little regular teaching. Article needs improvement, I suspect that editors from Jewish-related list who are more familiar with his work and career than I will swing by to bring it up to snuff.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 17:16, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- That is not a title, it simply means that he is a professor who teaches "Jewish History and Jewish Thought". The fact that he is not even full-time should tell you that his role there is not that important. If it said that he was the chair of the Jewish History Department, that would be different.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 17:30, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Er, no. Being a university professor, and being a University Professor are quite different things. Check out the University's press release on his appointment here: "University Professor is a special faculty position that allows Dr. Schacter, working in association with the deans, to teach and develop multidisciplinary initiatives at various academic units of the university. The position of Senior Scholar will enable Rabbi Schacter to play a prominent role in the new Center’s development." In this case, however, notability is supported by WP:SIGCOV, and by the fact that his scholarly work is significant and widely cited. We all make mistakes. I hope you will change your iVote to "keep", but it it's OK with you, let's let this nomination run for a the full 7 days in the hope that a knowledgeable and willing editor takes it as a prompt to improve the page. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:44, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Er, yes. Just because they capitalized it in the press release does not mean anything. I am not making a "mistake", you are. He is not a distinguished professor.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 17:57, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Er, yes. I am with
Rusf10, the capitalization does not mean anything. He is not distinguished in the academic world the way most people with that title are. We do not have consensus on his notability.--
Jayrav (
talk) 17:53, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- Failing to run a WP:BEFORE that would show notability on this individual was a mistake. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 10:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- That is not a title, it simply means that he is a professor who teaches "Jewish History and Jewish Thought". The fact that he is not even full-time should tell you that his role there is not that important. If it said that he was the chair of the Jewish History Department, that would be different.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 17:30, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- check out the faculty bio [
https://www.yu.edu/cjf/about/senior-staff" "University Professor of Jewish History and Jewish Thought," is a title given to him as a leading scholar who confers prestige on the University by holding a post that requires little regular teaching. Article needs improvement, I suspect that editors from Jewish-related list who are more familiar with his work and career than I will swing by to bring it up to snuff.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 17:16, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- "5. The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or distinguished professor appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon)." How does he pass that? According to the article, he is just an adjunct professor.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 16:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Delete Merge a brief bit of material into the entry on Center for the Jewish Future; He does not have outside importance beyond the Center. He does not have a major pulpit and he has received little outside academic recognition.-- Jayrav ( talk) 15:44, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- User:Jayrav, You seem to have missed the fact that he was the Rabbi of the Jewish Center (Manhattan) for many years. Article certainly needs improvement, but he is a major contemporary scholar. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:16, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sources: Here The ripple-effect rabbi is a profile of his tenure at the Jewish Center (Manhattan) that ran in the Jerusalem Post in 2000. Here: New York Rabbi To Lead Boston Institute Named for Orthodox Sage J. Soloveitchik is a 1999 profile of him in The Forward. More SIGCOV in The Forward in 1997 Two Rabbis Face The Juggernaut. Widely cited in books under "J.J. Schacter". Here: [1] are citatations of his work in gScholar. This nomination may be a result of searching under full name for a scholar who appears to sign articles with his initials. But sources area available, article just needs an editor. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:34, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. Yoninah ( talk) 08:26, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- Rusf10, Jayrav. This is just one of those cases where the page (even in its paltry, poorly sourced condition) appeared to indicate probable notability, and my quick searches seemed to confirm it. Whereas you both had the opposite experience. I am asking you both to consider that I have linked above to three profiles of him in reputable newspapers (And I can add more,) I have added reviews of the book he co-authored with another scholar, and I have pointed out that for two decades he held the pulpit of a major congregation, Jewish Center (Manhattan), leaving it to head up a Orthodox Jewish scholarly institute in Boston. The page continues to be in dire need of improvement, but every time I read your objections and try searching a different way - I find more notability. I am asking that your revisit. This [2] Boston Globe article , for example, comes up in the searchbar above by clicking HighBeam. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:31, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- Again, not every article that mentions him (like the Globe article) is indepth coverage. And
The Forward is not widely circulated. Also, you're not changing anyone's mind here by repeating yourself over and over again, so why don't you read
WP:BLUDGEON --
Rusf10 (
talk) 22:01, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- The thing is, the last time I got a new job, the Boston Globe did not publish a long article about me, my new job, and new Institute that had hired me to head it - the Globe did do so for the new job Schacter got in 2000. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 10:06, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- Again, not every article that mentions him (like the Globe article) is indepth coverage. And
The Forward is not widely circulated. Also, you're not changing anyone's mind here by repeating yourself over and over again, so why don't you read
WP:BLUDGEON --
Rusf10 (
talk) 22:01, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- WP:HEYMANN, I apologize for bringing the sources here - hereby making this discussion overly long. I have just expanded and sourced page. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 10:06, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- No, at 9 comments and counting that's a classic example of
WP:BLUDGEON--
Rusf10 (
talk) 12:29, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is an long-standing article that was poorly sourced when nominated. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:09, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
- No, at 9 comments and counting that's a classic example of
WP:BLUDGEON--
Rusf10 (
talk) 12:29, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- KEEP This article should not be deleted. It is about a prominent American rabbinic scholar who is widely published and very influential. 65.79.229.100 ( talk) 10:01, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment The above !vote by the IP is a textbook example of WP:ASSERTN. Do you have sources which support this statement? A quick google search reveals nothing of interest except pages saying that he is a university professor. Could this be of some interest? 198.84.253.202 ( talk) 13:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 14:32, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 14:32, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
- Weak keep - The sources found during this AfD help the article satisfy WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV. Looking at google books, Schacter is definitely seen as an authoritative writer on Jacob Emden, [3] which seems like a good indicator of his suitability as the subject for an encyclopedia article in his own right as a scholar. His position at the Jewish Center also lends some weight to his suitability. Smmurphy( Talk) 19:47, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.