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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

ITIM: Resources and Advocacy for Jewish Life

The result was Withdrawn - Original rationale was largely TNT based on overt and unsourced promotionalism. In the interim, the page has been turned into something resembling an article, and a number of reliable sources have been found and added. Duplicate article found and redirected to boot. There's still may be a discussion to be had regarding what the most appropriate title may be. GMG talk 13:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply

ITIM: Resources and Advocacy for Jewish Life (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article is not just totally unsourced, but seems to have always been so, and if it was created in it's current form I'd probably nominate G11. I'm surprised to find it's actually not COPYVIO. Maybe, maybe there's something hiding in the history that could be saved as a stub.

The name is sufficiently generic so as to make finding sources difficult in English. A search in Hebrew returns a lot of results, but I can't tell if it's just coincidental results like English searches seem to mostly be. Also no Hewbrew wiki article to compare. The court, Giyur KaHalacha, seems to be almost certainly notable, but it's not clear at all that the parent organization has sufficient depth of coverage.

At any rate, there's really nothing here that would need to be saved if someone were to write an actual encyclopedia article, save the info box. If someone wants to do that I'm fine with it and happy to withdraw, but barring that, I don't see a compelling reason to leave this very TNT worthy blatant advertisement sitting around for another five years. GMG talk 13:22, 20 November 2017 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 16:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 16:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Note - subject is probably over the notability on Hebrew sources (and I see an IP editor has been adding some English sources - all be it many passing - e.g. Guardian and NYT) - this advocacy organization has existed for quite some time and does have probably what counts as SIGCOV (I think beyond borderline pass, but not a clearly obvious pass, and yes - the name being a common Hebrew word does make sorting out the weeds vexing). user:GreenMeansGo does make however a persuasive argument for TNT in the current article form. I would suggest to the IP editor making improvements to focus on sourcing and cutting down the promotional language. Icewhiz ( talk) 16:46, 21 November 2017 (UTC) reply
    Weak Keep- following some article improvement. I still think this is a tad promotional, but the org is notable and deletion is not cleanup. Icewhiz ( talk) 10:44, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Note I added a search bar on ITIM + Farber, this keyword narrows search and brings up sources only on this ITIM center. (the center's director is Seth Farber). E.M.Gregory ( talk) 01:29, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Keep searches on ITIM + Farber (as a keyword to narrow search; the center's director is Seth Farber) bring up more than enough WP:SIGCOV in English to source a solid article. Plus a search on ITIM + Farber on NYTIMES.com brings up 3 articles over a decade with material on ITIM's role in the Israeli political discussion around legal standards for conversion to Judaism. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 01:29, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 02:26, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
Meh. I can live with it. I hacked it down to a stub, added the source from the alt article, and redirected the alt per the wording on the logo, which actually seems to be the former logo, and is no longer used on the official website. Some kind of parenthetical disambiguation may be more appropriate. I'm not super enthusiastic, since most of the sources in the alt search seem to be about the person and not the organization, but combined with the original searches and whatever is available in Hebrew, it's probably keepable, and probably expandable especially if someone speaks Hebrew. No prejudice against another nom if someone can thoroughly vet the non-English sources and decides otherwise. GMG talk 11:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
  • WP:HEY fleshed it out a little. Plenty of the sources adding "Farber" as a keyword pull up INDEPTH coverage of the organization. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 12:37, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Help How do I create a search bar that uses ITIM + Farber as separate search terms in the searchbar on this page? using both keywords brings up great sources. Using "ITIM, Farber", not so much. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 12:43, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
No worries E.M.Gregory. I've added a bit extra just for good measure. AfD isn't cleanup, but when the deletion rationale is largely TNT, sometimes it is. Now that Icewhiz has flipped, I'm free to withdraw. GMG talk 13:13, 27 November 2017 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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