The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Miss Wyoming USA. Spartaz ^Humbug! 11:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC) reply

Holly Allen

Holly Allen (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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All we really know about her is she won a state level contest for looking good. Classic case for WP:15MOF. Does not meet WP:NMODEL. Even setting aside her lack of notability for Wikipedia, per WP:NOPAGE this information is best presented in context on a list at Miss Wyoming USA. Delete and redirect.

Another issue with the article is that the creator is evidently the subject (Hallen6) who only edited this article and the related one for the pageant title, including introducing copyvio twice. In a previous AfD User:Ravenswing noted that the three personal shots in the article were all submitted by Hallen6, and one of them -- File:Holly Allen, 2011.jpg -- has under Source "My camera," and under Author, "Holly Allen." Legacypac ( talk) 04:01, 9 December 2015 (UTC) reply

• Delete: My objections are unchanged from February, except in so far as that there were two citations that were fleeting bulletpoint reports explicitly debarred by WP:ROUTINE, now there are five. The only source that goes for more than two paragraphs is this "county10.com," which now seems to be a broken link. Obvious fail of NMODEL, and no evidence the subject meets the GNG. (No objection, though, to a redirect to Miss Wyoming USA.) Ravenswing 07:56, 9 December 2015 (UTC) reply
• Keep as her notability is for winning the state title and notability is not temporary. Subject crosses the verifiability and notability thresholds with coverage in reliable third-party sources. Notability is a threshold, not a competition. - Dravecky ( talk) 18:43, 9 December 2015 (UTC) reply

Did you look at the article? Legacypac ( talk) 19:45, 9 December 2015 (UTC) reply

Yes. It's a stub in need of expansion. That's never a rationale for deletion. Also, these competitions are not a "contest for looking good" any more than the acting Oscars are won by "talking pretty in a costume" or the Pulitzer by "typing real nice". Your misunderstanding of WP:NOPAGE is profound. - Dravecky ( talk) 00:29, 10 December 2015 (UTC) reply

Would you mind linking to the guideline explicitly according notability to state pageant winners, especially given that there's no presumptive notability granted to the state pageant winners of the far more notable Miss America pageant? It'd also be nice if you could link to any reliable, independent third-party sources that provide the subject the "significant coverage" the GNG requires, none of the sources in the article being anything of the sort:

• First source [1] is a blog post on the website of the local radio station, the sum total of which is "Tomorrow (Saturday) is the Miss Wyoming send off event in Lander. Holly Allen of Lander will be traveling to Las Vegas soon for the Miss U.S.A. pageant and she is raising money for her trip. Tomorrow afternoon from 4pm to 8pm. The Museum of the American West will be hosting a County Cook out dinner for $10. Proceeds will help Allen get to Las Vegas for the competition." Even if it wasn't obviously the station's local events blog, this is a news blip explicitly debarred by WP:ROUTINE.
• Second source [2], again from a local radio station's website, is obviously a (brief) press release; the same text is repeated on the first source's blog, and the repeated "Miss Wyoming USA®" and "Miss Wyoming Teen USA®" snips, complete with trademark symbols, is a dead giveaway.
• Third source [3] comes the closest to substantive content (a whole eleven sentences), if we had any idea what "county10.com" was (the site lacks any info on that whatsoever, and it seems to be no longer updated), or its qualifications to being a reliable, substantive source.
• Fourth source [4] is another fleeting press release, this one from the Lander Chamber of Commerce.
• The final source [5] is again from county10.com, and is in fact about the subject's sister (the subject herself is mentioned only in a single sentence).
• Beyond that, there's bupkis. "Holly Allen" + Wyoming turns up nothing on Highbeam, nothing on newspapers.com, nothing on the Google Newspapers feature, and the only substantive hit on Google News is a picture-studded Daily Mail article on the Miss USA pageant winner where Allen is mentioned in the photo caption in one of the group pictures.

  This is exactly the situation that NOPAGE was designed to cover, given that Allen's only apparent claim to prominence is having won this state pageant, there's no significant sourced biographical information beyond the standard date/parents/high school/hometown info available about damn near every living person in the United States, and lo and behold, there's an appropriate redirect target. Ravenswing 13:35, 10 December 2015 (UTC) reply

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2015 December 17. — ^{cyberbot I} _{Talk to my owner:Online} 00:04, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wyoming-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:40, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:40, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

• Keep Why this subject be any less notable than it was when brought to AfD by the same nominator with the same basic reasoning just 10 months ago, when it survived AfD? Notability is not temporary. Is nominating the same article for deletion repeatedly respectful treatment of the editors at AfD and the entire AfD Process? Jacona ( talk) 01:47, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

We are not debating notability, we are talking about following WP:NOPAGE which assumes notablity. Some people object to these bios being turned into redirects so we use AfD. Reread the basis of the nomination. Legacypac ( talk) 01:51, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

AfDs are revisited all the time, and not just due to procedural errors. Indeed, you're right: notability is not temporary, which is why it's important to establish it in the first place. I'll ask you the same questions I asked Dravecky: what guidelines establishing presumptive notability do you claim explicitly apply to this subject, and what sources (and why) do you claim are the multiple reliable, independent, third-party sources with an established reputation for fact checking and accuracy that provide "significant coverage" to the subject that the GNG requires to establish notability? Ravenswing 03:01, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

• merge summary into Miss Wyoming USA. Essentially nothing to wrote about. Staszek Lem ( talk) 03:18, 17 December 2015 (UTC) reply

• Delete/Merge No significant coverage. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 11:42, 18 December 2015 (UTC) reply
• Keep as a WP:GNG pass, per Dravecky. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 01:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC) reply

• I'll ask you the same question as I did Dravecky and Jacona, seeing as they're declining to answer: what sources (and why) do you claim are the multiple reliable, independent, third-party sources with an established reputation for fact checking and accuracy that provide "significant coverage" to the subject that the GNG requires to establish notability? Ravenswing 04:03, 22 December 2015 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.