The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. BLP1E arguments appear valid Spartaz ^Humbug! 08:04, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Frenzo Harami

Frenzo Harami (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO and WP:MUSICBIO. The sources cited are song lists, video links, promos and trivial mention. No awards or charted songs. Some reliable secondary sources discussed how one of this musician's songs was banned on BBC, but notability is not established by one event. Magnolia677 ( talk) 23:04, 12 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 23:08, 12 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 23:08, 12 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Keep. Has a charted song. Was due to add this to the page but it slipped my mind. As the creator of the article I do believe at the time I created the article WP:TOOSOON, however since then a lot has been added to the article to just about meet WP:MUSICBIO, the charting single, although recent, was a collaborative single. TwinTurbo ( talk) 00:35, 13 April 2020 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: TwinTurbo ( talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. reply

Frenzo Harami released the single " Sarangi" on 8 December 2019 alongside Ickey Singh and Raashi Sood. The single was produced by Swifty Beats and peaked at number 35 on the OCC Asian Music Chart where it remained for a week. ^{[1] [2] [3]}

Comment: it's pretty weak though... one low-charting single on a specialist chart, and a storm in a teacup BLP1EVENT that never got any mention again after one day. Richard3120 ( talk) 02:34, 13 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• • Low charting or high charting, it was still on a nationally recognised chart. I do agree that his music career is something that has just but enough to pass WP:TOOSOON, and yes he has been a subject of a single event that was noted by reliable sources but these same sources also mention his music and releases too. TwinTurbo ( talk) 15:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC) reply

He is actually just a featured artist on that single, and not the main artist though, isn't he? Richard3120 ( talk) 19:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Although it is listed without the mention of half the artists on the official charts company website, it Is a collaborative single - uploaded on Frenzo's YT channel, the single on Deezer. Frenzo is an international artist, he is recognised amongst the South Asian community in countries including Pakistan, India and Bangladesh as well as the UK. TwinTurbo ( talk) 19:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC

I know he is on the song, but there is a difference between a "collaborative artist" who gets equal billing, and a "featured artist" who is a guest on the single... Deezer, Apple Music [1] and Amazon [2] all credit the single to Ickey Singh, and Harami is just one of the guests on the song. Richard3120 ( talk) 21:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete: I really can't see how the subject passes WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. His sole charting record anywhere was the lower end of a specialist chart, which wouldn't pass WP:NSONG itself, and he wasn't the main artist on the record, just a featured guest. The only other reliable sources mentioning him are a classic WP:BLP1E, a forgotten-the-next-day "controversy" that provided some mild shock-horror headlines for the media and clearly had no lasting effect, as the incident happened a year ago and there has been no mention of the subject in reliable sources since then, despite having released two EPs and two singles in that period. Richard3120 ( talk) 15:32, 20 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep per TwinTurbo, he was a collaborative artist on the charting single and he was also credited as the composer and songrwiter on the single. Article has improved significantly under WP:HEY since nom and has notable sources in his music career to which pass criteria 1 of WP:Musicbio too including this, this and this. Mr. Apollo ( don't talk to me) 12:53, 23 April 2020 (UTC) — Apollo825 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply

Hmmm, so you've just joined Wikipedia, literally your first edit was this "keep" vote, you then created a user page in which you list editors who supposedly can help stop deletion votes, presumably without getting their permission to list their names or even notifying them that you've done so, and then you spam their talk pages to try and get them to vote here, in contravention of WP:CANVAS? I smell a rat. Richard3120 ( talk) 13:30, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

There's no need to ABF. Not knowing about WP:CANVAS or our editing norms is consitent with being a genuine newbie. That said, you're right that Apollo is at risk of getting banned unless they stop canvasing. FeydHuxtable ( talk) 13:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Well yes, I am going to assume bad faith if someone joins Wikipedia specifically to vote keep in an AfD, and then lists editors' names on their user page without their permission. Richard3120 ( talk) 13:49, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Woah aren't you quick to jump to conclusions: I just happen to not remember my old account passwords User:Apollo828 and User:Johnny338. Anyways, I was hoping for a much warmer welcome back to Wikipedia, feels good to be back but anyways I was not aware of canvassing and I do apologise for that. Mr. Apollo ( don't talk to me) 13:57, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

@ Richard3120: User:TwinTurbo--the creator of Frenzo Harami--made this edit at User:Dream Focus talk page admiring Dream Focus' skill at not getting articles deleted. It was TwinTurbo's first edit to Dream Focus' talk page. Then 12 hours later, User:Apollo825 opened an account and made this edit to Dream Focus' talk page, where Dream Focus was specifically asked to participate in this AfD discussion. Why did Apollo825 just "randomly" leave a message at Dream Focus' talk page right after TwinTurbo? Apollo825 stated that their old account with a lost password was User:Johnny338, but that user had never edited Dream Focus' talk page. Something isn't right here. Magnolia677 ( talk) 17:04, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

What are you trying to imply? I left my message in good nature regarding another afd on Dream Focus's page. Both of Apollo's old accounts seem to be inactive for over five years and the same way you both are weaving around adds, isn't Apollo doing the same thing? TwinTurbo ( talk) 17:13, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep obvious pass for GNG & WP:Musicbio criteria #1. While evaluating the coverage in RSs, I was listening to some of his tunes. Maybe still a little too raw & real, but quite virtuoso. I've never heard fusion quite like it before, would reccomend if anyone wants to hear something new. mtm might be right that he could be the next big thing. FeydHuxtable ( talk) 13:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

How is this an "obvious pass"? The sources that are reliable ones literally give you no biographical or musical details about the artist at all, simply that one of his songs was banned one day by the BBC. That isn't a pass of WP:GNG at all. Richard3120 ( talk) 13:49, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

GRM Daily amd Mixtape Madness are reliable secondary sources too. Mr. Apollo ( don't talk to me) 13:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Mixtape Madness is a blog and not an RS. GRM Daily would be okay, but the two sources are simply links to videos, they provide no in-depth information about the artist at all. Richard3120 ( talk) 14:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Mixtape Madness is not a blog. I guess what you meant was that it's piece on Harami was in it's blog section. This can still be RS, please see WP:NEWSBLOG. Anyway, no need to get bogged down on the mmt source. He's had coverage in several other independent RS as even you seem to admit. WP:GNG says nothing about needing to give "biographical or musical details". To confer notability, they just need to give "significant coverage". Which they do. Oversall, the article has suffient biographical & musical detail to be useful for our readers,IMO. @ Apollo - welcome back! I did think about giving you a welcome and a tip towards wp:canvass, but the "don't talk to me" in your sig made me think twice, might be something to change if you decide to stick around. FeydHuxtable ( talk) 14:23, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

But it still isn't an RS, WP:NEWSBLOG or not – it's simply a link to a video on a website that describes itself as a "music discovery platform", where artists can upload their own music and it distributes news from other websites. Richard3120 ( talk) 14:32, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Mixtape Madness is a music outlet for british hip hop artist, they call their press releases "a blog". Either way there is significant coverage on his music releases apart from the BBC ban. and @ FeydHuxtable, I have change my sig to make it more welcoming. Mr. Apollo ( talk to me bebe) 14:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Could you please show us where this "significant coverage" is? Richard3120 ( talk) 14:51, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• He got coverage for being banned by the BBC [3] for the offensive lyrics. I was given a notice on my talk page asking me to participate by a new editor not aware of the canvassing rules. Since I was canvassed I will not vote here. Dream Focus 13:54, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

@ Dream Focus: I know he did, but that's a WP:BLP1E, there's literally no other significant coverage apart from that event. Richard3120 ( talk) 14:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I couldn't find anything else when I checked. Then after searching for a few minutes I started thinking about the canvassing thing so decided not to participate. Dream Focus 14:22, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete. None of the subject's mixtapes or extended plays have been discussed in reliable sources. Having a low charting song and and another song banned by BBC are not enough to warrant a separate article.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 15:30, 23 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Speedy Delete — No in-depth significant coverage in reliable sources independent of subject can be found & Per what Versace1608 said & also per this comment made by Richard3120 which reads Hmmm, so you've just joined Wikipedia, literally your first edit was this "keep" vote, you then created a user page in which you list editors who supposedly can help stop deletion votes, presumably without getting their permission to list their names or even notifying them that you've done so, and then you spam their talk pages to try and get them to vote here, in contravention of WP:CANVAS? I smell a rat.” Newbie or not, common sense should tell anyone including new users that stuff like that is absolutely wrong. Nothing more annoying than on/off Wiki canvassing, Sockpuppetry, meat puppetry, or recruiting in any manner, people who have the same thought process as you to come !vote on a particular AFD. Celestina007 ( talk) 00:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Meat Puppets is my fav rock band! :) Mr. Apollo ( talk to me bebe) 01:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Comment - I do agree that this article is borderline notable, but if it must be deleted can I request it be moved to draft space under WP:TOOSOON & WP:WOOD TwinTurbo ( talk) 04:07, 24 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I agree that this article could be potentially draftified as the rapper is borderline notable, but may need more media coverage or accomplishments before having enough material to be in the mainspace.-- WuTang94 ( talk) 05:53, 25 April 2020 (UTC) reply

As per Dream Focus, I will not vote as I was personally contacted by one of the now-blocked accounts to participate in this discussion.-- WuTang94 ( talk) 23:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I don't want to comment on the SPI, but if Twin Turbo is now indeffed, that does make draftifying a less likely option, as he will now not be able to work on it. Richard3120 ( talk) 23:43, 26 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Totally fine with that actually. After re-reading the page, it looks like this page is mostly fluff at this point and does not need to be on Wikipedia. In the event that Frenzo becomes notable enough for his own page in the future, I think that it can be completely rewritten.-- WuTang94 ( talk) 00:05, 27 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Note to closing admin - User:Apollo825 has been identified as a sock of User:TwinTurbo. Both are indefinitely blocked. Magnolia677 ( talk) 18:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep after severe trimming - I removed a lot of the undue coverage, and I think the article might be acceptable now. He is really only famous for being banned from the BBC, which the article now reflects. Compare this version with this version. Ikjbagl ( talk) 02:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • @ Ikjbagl: I added back the discography, but kept the rest of your trimming. Even so, I'm not sure if it's enough to merit the page being kept. Might be okay to be draftified for now, and if no notable sources are added, I think the draft will be automatically deleted after 6 months from my experience.-- WuTang94 ( talk) 03:08, 27 April 2020 (UTC) reply
    • @ WuTang94: Thank you, that seems reasonable. An article about him being banned by the BBC might be more notable than an article about the artist himself. Ikjbagl ( talk) 03:42, 27 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.