The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Wikipedia is not a memorial. Most of this material is already in the subject's biography
Ohconfucius¡digame! 01:58, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep. A state funeral is notable, not to mention he wouldn't even be entitled to a state funeral. This article will only expand as details about his death and funeral continue to be released.
117Avenue (
talk) 02:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Speedy keep. Overwhelming response shortly after nomination.
117Avenue (
talk) 04:08, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Strong keep per Rusted AutoParts—
FoxCE (
talk |
contribs) 02:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
In addition, did you not notice the "current event" tag when you placed the AFD tag? Most of the material is already in the subject's biography because the state funeral is not until Saturday —
FoxCE (
talk |
contribs) 02:10, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
I'd have to agree with CharlieEchoTango's comments that this is a clear keep. Can we please not have a big red deletion tag on the article while the funeral is actually taking place and being broadcast by all the major Canadian networks? It's a little embarrassing.
Paul Erik(talk)(contribs) 02:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Agreed... I think the nominator should seriously consider retracting this nomination, it is not going to succeed —
FoxCE (
talk |
contribs) 02:37, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
I'd like to note that I see the nominator's point (and, as a matter of fact, I was about to nominate it for
WP:SPEEDY under A10); this is essentially a fork from the main article. To compare it to Ronald Reagan's and Pierre Trudeau's articles is a little rash, because the state funerals of those persons were large events and had much to write about (and, to boot, Trudeau's made Newsmaker of the Year by the Canadian Press). If Jack Layton's funeral turns out to be like many other funerals, then there really is no reason to keep this article. EricLeb01 (
Page |
Talk) 03:21, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Of course it's a fork, and forks are perfectly fine. What about
WP:GNG, Ericleb01? This topic has already been the subject of multiple, substantial, non-trivial coverage by reliable sources, which will be multiplied when the funeral actually happens (you guys know how big these funerals get, right? More than 50,000 people paid their respect to Trudeau, if I recall correctly). So no, it's not rash to compare PET's funeral to Layton's funeral, although they do have a different context (one a former head of government, the other the first leader of the opposition to be granted the honour of a state funeral). But regardless of any other argument, it easily, and already, passes GNG, which is in itself a reason to keep. Best, —
Charlie Echo Tango — 03:38, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Sympathetic delete. That something is a notable facet of something else does not automatically necessitate a new article. There isn't much to add to this fork that isn't already in Layton's article, and aside from the repetitive platitudes from politicos offering condolences, there simply wont be much new in this article even after the funeral. That being said, the result of this AFD was a foregone conclusion from the start, as
WP:NOTNEWS almost never defeats a rush to cover what does not require it's own article so soon after an event.
Resolute 03:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Snowball Keep with no prejudice against a 2nd AFD nomination or merge after the event. Notability is clear, as per
Charlie Echo Tango above. If there are strong arguments that this is an unnecessary content fork after the event, renominate it for merge or deletion.
Vulcan's Forge (
talk) 04:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment – Given that
Jack Layton#Illness and death is just about as large as this article, I also wonder if this is an unnecessary split, not to mention both are saying similar things. It seems very redundant to me. However, I'm not Canadian, and I don't know how this will play out, so I could be jumping the gun here. But I need to mention that, just because something has some reliable sources, doesn't always mean that it needs to have a separate article just because the notability guidelines say so. If something can be mentioned easily in the context in another article and no other issues are present, then I see no reason to scatter everything all over the place and fluster readers. (gets off soapbox) –
MuZemike 04:43, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your comment. You mention that the section in the main article is just about as large as this article, and I agree it is right now; however, this is very much a current event and my belief is that this article will expand over the week and especially over the week-end when all heads are turned towards this funeral. I've seen too many times where a 'news' article is nominated to AfD with the underlying argument that is too small/should be merged but somehow survives and becomes much bigger. That is the very nature of current events. But then I know this is not covered by any guideline and at this time edges on the side of WP:CRYSTAL. As for your mention of 'reliable source' vs. 'notability of a specific topic', I also agree, but I would point out that when there is a significant coverage of a specific topic (Death of Layton) that is separate from coverage of a larger topic (Layton), then yes it demonstrates a definite level of notability. If people think there is not enough coverage just yet (I believe there is, but that is subjective), then I urge everyone people to wait and see what will happen this week-end when all media outlets in this country will be busy canonizing Layton. And saints are surely notable, aren't they? Joke aside, this is a clear cut case by all means. Let's not repeat the '2011 UK riot' AfD and countless others who have turned out to be very notable by themselves. —
Charlie Echo Tango — 04:58, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
I'm sure the closing administrator will be able to assess !votes by him/herself. Care to explain why you think it is 'suspicious'? —
Charlie Echo Tango — 05:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
This user needs to review
wp:bite My vote is just as good as anyone elses, im assuming the user eho says my vote should not count somehow wants the page to not be deleted.
DoDo Bird Brain (
talk) 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep. Notability is clear as this is state funeral.
Wheatsing (
talk) 04:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep This article will probably be expanded after the funeral is held.
70.77.248.62 (
talk) 05:14, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep. Considering it's the first time the Leader of the Opposition has been given a state funeral, It is at least notable in the short term. Perhaps later it can be combined, but right now, let's keep a separate article for any more information.
^_^ ^_^ (
talk) 05:59, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep Jack Layton is a very notable politician, in Canada. I bet if this was an American politician, Americans would strongly reject deletion of the article. This RFD is a strong reminder of the inherent American-centrism of this whole website.
NorthernThunder (
talk) 06:20, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
What utter bullshit. The nominator isn't even American... why do so many Canadians always blame everything on Americans? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
142.68.108.96 (
talk) 10:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep On the grounds that the state funeral has yet to take place, it's a little unfair to comment in the notability of the article, at least postpone the discussion until after the event has taken place
RandomAct(talk to me) 07:10, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep - state funeral of a notable politician who died at a relatively young age. It should be a big event, though this would better be judged until the events are over. –
Connormah (
talk) 13:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep. Like royal weddings, the funerals of at least some national political leaders are often state occasions. This one seems to qualify, and as such it has plenty of independent sources. -
Smerdis of Tlön -
killing the human spirit since 2003! 15:12, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep Extremely notable event. Can't believe someone would even nominate it. -
DJSasso (
talk) 17:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Speedy keep per Rusted AutoParts and Paul Erik
Iotha (
talk) 19:23, 24 August 2011 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.