- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. – Joe ( talk) 21:38, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
David Waronker
AfDs for this article:
- David Waronker ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:BIO, president of a non-notable real estate company. Also founded a very short-lived minor hockey league and had partial ownership in several of the teams. Only limited coverage in reliable sources. Previous deletion discussion ended in no consensus. Rusf10 ( talk) 02:47, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete a non-notable businessman. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 03:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 04:49, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 04:49, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. Flibirigit ( talk) 16:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep meets WP:GNG as the founder and commissioner of the WHA2, despite the article being undersouced. Flibirigit ( talk) 16:22, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Being that the
WHA2 was only in existence for one year, it's barely notable itself.--
Rusf10 (
talk)
17:28, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- It still meets notability guidelines.
Flibirigit (
talk)
18:02, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Even if the league is notable, the owner of the league isn't notable on their own because they own the league. SportingFlyer talk 02:07, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- Nope, being the owner of a sports club does not, by itself, assign Wiki-notability to a person.
- It still meets notability guidelines.
Flibirigit (
talk)
18:02, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Being that the
WHA2 was only in existence for one year, it's barely notable itself.--
Rusf10 (
talk)
17:28, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete: The WHA2 meets notability guidelines, but no one's proposing deleting that article. This is the one up for discussion, and notability is not inherited, nor does any guideline grant presumptive notability to the heads of ephemeral low-minor leagues. Waronker just doesn't meet the "significant coverage" bar of the GNG. Ravenswing 18:13, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete non-notable businessperson who fails the WP:GNG. Being a litigant doesn't convey notability. SportingFlyer talk 18:53, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep I ran a news archive search on Proquest, and it shows detailed coverage of his career as a real estate developer going back to the early 90s. Large developments, seems to have started by building suburban subdivisions in New Jersey, more recently building large apartment complexes in Florida. In addition, of course, to the series of sports franchises he owned. As is so often the case, lack of access to powerful news archives inhibits editors for assessing notability and building articles. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 23:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- 1. Where are all these sources??? You only added one to the article. 2. These hockey teams aren't even notable themselves. His hockey league folded after one season.--
Rusf10 (
talk)
23:37, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- Here's a detailed, reported, open access story about him;
Waronker severs ties with the Atlantic Coast Hockey League. Rusf10, do you have access to a news archive?
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
23:41, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- And the teams are certainly notable, in fact, if you look at the links (always a good seat-of-the-pants indication of notability) you will see that their pages link to this page. I think we should keep and hope someone makes time to improve the article.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
23:44, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- 1. The Orlando Business Journal is hardly a well-known publication. 2. "if you look at the links (always a good seat-of-the-pants indication of notability) you will see that their pages link to this page" Are you kidding me? What kind of
circular logic is that? Because someone linked it to other pages, it must be notable? That's almost as bad as "someone created an article so it must be notable".--
Rusf10 (
talk)
23:51, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
-
Orlando Business Journal. But, as I said, many articles in my Proquest search were from big city dailies in several states, covering the ins and outs of Waronker's real estate development career. In addition to coverage of his sports involvement and stuff like articles about charitable donations he and his spouse have made. I am somewhat offended that you seem unable to
WP:AGF and accept that this material exists. And without taking it into account in some way, I fail to see how you can assess notability.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
00:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- I know in the past we've deleted articles about people whose only claim to notability was owning a minor league sports team.
SportingFlyer
talk
14:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- I am not arguing that all owners of minor league teams automatically confers notability, only that there has been WP:SIGCOV of Warnonke's ownership of a series of such teams - and of a short-lived league. And of his business career as a real estate developer. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:10, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- I know in the past we've deleted articles about people whose only claim to notability was owning a minor league sports team.
SportingFlyer
talk
14:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
-
Orlando Business Journal. But, as I said, many articles in my Proquest search were from big city dailies in several states, covering the ins and outs of Waronker's real estate development career. In addition to coverage of his sports involvement and stuff like articles about charitable donations he and his spouse have made. I am somewhat offended that you seem unable to
WP:AGF and accept that this material exists. And without taking it into account in some way, I fail to see how you can assess notability.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
00:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- 1. The Orlando Business Journal is hardly a well-known publication. 2. "if you look at the links (always a good seat-of-the-pants indication of notability) you will see that their pages link to this page" Are you kidding me? What kind of
circular logic is that? Because someone linked it to other pages, it must be notable? That's almost as bad as "someone created an article so it must be notable".--
Rusf10 (
talk)
23:51, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- And the teams are certainly notable, in fact, if you look at the links (always a good seat-of-the-pants indication of notability) you will see that their pages link to this page. I think we should keep and hope someone makes time to improve the article.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
23:44, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- Here's a detailed, reported, open access story about him;
Waronker severs ties with the Atlantic Coast Hockey League. Rusf10, do you have access to a news archive?
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
23:41, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- 1. Where are all these sources??? You only added one to the article. 2. These hockey teams aren't even notable themselves. His hockey league folded after one season.--
Rusf10 (
talk)
23:37, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- This: [1] comment by Dream Focus in the previous AfD shows the problems I described earlier, with paywalled sources and the fact that he got more press a few years ago, and so may not have shows up well in Nom's WP:BEFORE search. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 00:20, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
- WP:HEY I did a modest improvement of his career as a developer, lots more sourcing out there. Coverage of his involvement with hockey ownership is massive (I did not expand the hockey coverage, but sources to do so certainly exist). E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:10, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:09, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:09, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
- Weak Keep. Borderline keep, I ran a search on Factiva, comes up with 7 articles on him, covering both his real estate stuff, and him discussing things about the hockey team. Albeit smaller titles like "The Knoxville News-Sentinel" "The Philadelphia Inquirer" and "The Florida Times-Union (KRTBN)", Deathlibrarian ( talk) 07:45, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete: does not meet WP:ANYBIO and significant coverage in independent sources are lacking. The coverage is mostly routine (""A DEVELOPER GOES BACK TO COURT OVER E. GREENWICH BOARD'S REFUSAL") and / or WP:SPIP ("NEW OWNER INTENDS TO KEEP SEALS IN TOWN"). Simply a non-notable individual; the article has originated as a promotional CV and the current state is not suggestive of notability. K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:54, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A BLP, so a second relist is acceptable here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 20:49, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisting comment: A BLP, so a second relist is acceptable here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 20:49, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 07:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 07:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. The article reads like an ad for the person. The subject of the article is also lacking GNG to justify an article. Sportsfan 1234 ( talk) 21:46, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Delete with extreme caution, possibly with a stake through the heart. Fails WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, WP:NSPORTS, and gods' admonition to be humble. - The Gnome ( talk) 11:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Delete My search didn't find coverage that I believe is sufficient to meet WP:GNG. The coverage all seems to be local and pretty typical for what you'd expect from a minor league sports owner and/or a real estate developer. Papaursa ( talk) 19:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.