The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No consensus among participating editors that WP:HEY level improvement happened. Barkeep49 ( talk) 03:14, 13 April 2020 (UTC) reply

David Sutherland (headmaster)

David Sutherland (headmaster) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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No apparent notability , bur enough material that I'm not comfortable using speedy A7 DGG ( talk ) 06:13, 28 March 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 06:17, 28 March 2020 (UTC) reply

Response by author:

This is the first time that I have encountered the issue of notability as a problem. I have made some changes to the article in the hope that this will help to justify its inclusion.

I would argue that in the case of this article, the notability which David achieved was largely within the relatively isolated community of Wick. Going to study in Edinburgh from a two-roomed cottage and a one-teacher school in a poor highland community in the late 19th Century was a significant achievement in itself. The success of such students was regularly celebrated in the local newspapers. He helped to establish the local golf club in Bonar Bridge, with some help from Andrew Carnegie. It still exists: ( https://www.bonarbridgegolf.co.uk/). He subsequently returned to live in Wick near where he grew up and took an active part in the life of the town both before and after the First World War. His war service was not insignificant, and the book which he subsequently published ( https://www.electricscotland.com/books/pdf/war_diary.htm), illustrates clearly how the war was managed at the front by officers like himself who believed firmly in winning the war. It would be easy to consider the Wick Lifeboat Parade or the Gala as not being of great significance, but at the time they provided much-needed entertainment for the community, and had to be organised properly.

Readers who are interested in the life of Scott Sutherland, sculptor of the Commando Memorial might also use the link to his father in the article about him to find out more about his family background. I believe that history should not be the exclusive preserve of people born into privilege. There are entries in Wikipedia for people whose only real achievement was to be born into the aristocracy. This article deserves to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TriodeFollower ( talk • contribs) 20:52, 28 March 2020 (UTC) reply

Strongly oppose deletion. This article is very well written, very good and extensive documentation, about a fine educator who did many civic activities, and served in the reserves as a MAJOR.-- Dthomsen8 ( talk) 20:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC) reply

Not sure why you've capitalised "Major" as though this meant an obvious keep. It's not a very senior rank and nowhere near senior enough for any sort of inherent notability (that would be brigadier or above). -- Necrothesp ( talk) 13:33, 1 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:43, 30 March 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete none of the sources or activities rise to the level of notability. The combination of hyper local coverage and primary sources is not what we need to show notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:36, 30 March 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 13:34, 1 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 13:35, 1 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Nothing here shows that he was known outside of Wick. It's possible that there's some notability through his book War diary of the Fifth Seaforth Highlanders but if so I haven't been able to find it (and I would need multiple books with multiple published reviews each before being convinced of a pass of WP:AUTHOR). — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Comment. I will stay neutral in terms of keep or delete, as I think a case could be made for either option. But if the article does survive, then in my view it requires a clean-up. It seems to be partly written in a rather informal style. His Christian name "David" is used throughout the article rather than his surname "Sutherland". Phrases such as "lads learning trades" seem informal rather than in an encyclopedic tone. Phrases such as "his unwavering commitment" and "he distinguished himself" seem to be giving Sutherland a bit of positive spin rather than in a neutral encyclopedic style. Kind Tennis Fan ( talk) 14:29, 5 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Comment Thank you Kind Tennis Fan for your constructive comment, in the light of which I have incorporated a number of changes. I have also added a link from which a copy of his book can be downloaded. TriodeFollower ( talk) 12:14, 6 April 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep per WP:HEY; good work by TriodeFollower. Bearian ( talk) 15:18, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Delete. The subject seems, in conventional terms, an industrious achiever but I struggle to find anything that approaches the GNG. There's a lot of material that I genuinely think "well done you" but I'm not sure why it is noted in an encyclopedia. If there is any wheat there, can it be pointed out and if it's enough for retention, can the considerable chaff be winnowed away and the tone made encyclopedic? Mutt Lunker ( talk) 13:51, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.