- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Drmies ( talk) 01:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
David E. Tolchinsky
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Highly advertorialized WP:BLP of a person whose claims of notability are not reliably sourced. The only references here are IMDb and a deadlinked primary source press release from one of his own former employers, not real media coverage, and until I cleaned it up for WP:ELNO compliance just now, the article was otherwise a stank nest of offsite links to the self-published websites of organizations and people named in the article. As always, however, the inclusion test on Wikipedia is not what the article says, but how well it references what it says -- people are very highly prone to making inflated self-promotional claims of notability about themselves, so the inclusion test requires real media coverage to independently verify that the notability claims are actually true, and is not passed just because of what the subject claims in his own self-published sourcing about himself. Bearcat ( talk) 18:21, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Tolchinsky's page should not be deleted -- a prominent Northwestern University professor, a graduate of Yale and USC, and his films have been seen on iTunes and various festivals and have won awards. He's been written about in The Chicago Tribune, The New York Times, Broadway World, Splash, the Village Voice, and others. Tried to delete unverifiable statements and added verifiable references; but could use some help with proper formatting for those references. This article should be expanded. MegaAguirre —Preceding undated comment added 05:57, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
- Far, far too much of what you've added is still primary sourcing that does not count as support for notability at all — for instance, a person is not notable as a film producer just because the film is on iTunes as referenced to iTunes, or because he has an IMDb profile, or because he has a staff profile on the self-published website of his employer, or because he's been written about on blogs. And the only New York Times citation you've added here is not an article about him, but an article about furniture design in which he gets briefly namechecked as a giver of soundbite about chairs — so that's not a source that supports his notability either. Newspaper articles do not automatically support personal notability just because he gave a quote to a journalist in an article about something other than himself — newspaper articles support notability by being about him as a subject.
- You've only added two sources that are doing anything at all in terms of establishing his notability, Broadway World and The Daily Northwestern — but Broadway World is "covering" him only in the context of winning the Best Director award at a minor local theatre festival that isn't notable enough to be the notability claim that gets its award winners into Wikipedia in and of itself, and The Daily Northwestern is a university student newspaper. So they're not nothing, but they're not enough — and not a single other source in the entire article besides those two is worth anything at all. Bearcat ( talk) 21:41, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
- Comment Bearcat, Passes WP:PROF if he held a named chair at NW.- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:46, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
- He wasn't named chair. He is full Professor and was Founding Director and Department Chair. -- Theredproject ( talk) 16:55, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
- P.S. I am surprised this article is hear without the wife Debra Kahn Tolchinsky also being listed jointly. The articles were created about 15 minutes apart back in 2010.- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:51, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 01:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 01:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 01:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- Comment, are there copyright issues here? this article looks very similar to Tolchinsky's biopage here. Coolabahapple ( talk) 01:33, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
- It shows there are: copyvios
- Just from his bio page. Otr500 ( talk)
- Delete: per nom. I am opposed to intrinsic notability ( inherent) as a rubber stamp or attempts to "water-down" or otherwise negate basic notability guidelines that rely on significant reliable sourcing. These will lessen the chance of copyright violations. This page in a nutshell: shows the allowance for the use of primary sources in academics "when influential in the world of ideas" or "significant impact in their scholarly discipline". I can agree that Criteria #1, #2, #3, #4, #6, #7, #8, #9 to be exceptions (still requiring sourcing), but I do not agree that just having a "Named chair" as a lone criteria for allowing an article. If we accept that then please lets change the "Five pillars". Otr500 ( talk) 07:54, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
- Otr500 PROF says: "any one of the following conditions," including 5: "The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or distinguished professor appointment at a major institution of higher education and research, or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon."-- Theredproject ( talk) 17:03, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.