- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep albeit weakly. I don't see a third relist changing it in any meaningful way Star Mississippi 03:10, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Christian Seel
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Christian Seel ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
There was some WP:BEFORE type discussion about this at WT:CHESS#Christian Seel and most of those who participated seem to feel that this person is at best a borderline case of Wikipedia notability. A recent edit to the article pretty much removed all of the unsourced content and what remains is clearly not sufficient to establish Wikipedia solely based upon Seel's achievements as an amateur shogi player. So, I'm starting a formal discussion about this here to see what the rest of the community thinks. Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Marchjuly ( talk) 01:27, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Comment What stands out to me is that the short article has nothing newer than about 10 years ago. I would think that if he were notable that there would be achievements in the last 10 years in the article. So unless I find out otherwise, I think that he is not notable enough. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:46, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep. The subject is certainly borderline. They don't quite meet WP:NCHESS, but are close. They are not a grandmaster, but have achieved the required rating of 2500. I am unsure what their norm status is, but their rating has recently spiked again. They also appear to have been German Shogi champion in 2012 (the wording in the English article is clunky and appears to have been badly translated). The combination of these two factors lean me towards keeping. Article and sourcing could certainly do with some improvement though. Greenman ( talk) 10:50, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Comment. I found this through the deletion sorting list for academics, after the information on his academic career had been removed from the article. It is relevant, and I restored it. However, although he appears to be doing well in it, it is still too early for WP:PROF notability; any notability will have to come through his game-playing and WP:GNG/ WP:NCHESS instead. I don't have a strong opinion on whether he passes those criteria. — David Eppstein ( talk) 17:24, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Weak delete. After more cleanups I'm still not convinced of notability. It's still WP:TOOSOON for academic notability. In chess, he's an IM, which is impressive but below the grandmaster level needed for notability through WP:NCHESS, and I couldn't find reviews of his chess opening book that would allow him to pass WP:AUTHOR. One can find plenty of sites collecting his games but I think that's too routine for any competitive chess player to count towards notability. In shogi, one can find sites stating that he was 2012 German champion, but it appears that he actually placed 3rd in the championship, and I don't think that's enough either. So there are a lot of different criteria that he has significant work in but where he falls a little short. — David Eppstein ( talk) 20:47, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
- @ David Eppstein: I found some reviews on the publishers website. -- hroest 18:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:09, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Moderately strong IM in a country full of IMs so on the borderline of notability. Won't bother me too much if it's deleted (I have no investment in it) but as long as it's properly referenced it seems reasonable to keep. By the way WP:NCHESS is strictly informal and unofficial, written for the guidance of WP:CHESS members. Plenty of weaker players from smaller countries have wikipedia articles by virtue of having represented their country at a chess olympiad. MaxBrowne2 ( talk) 23:18, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
- weak keep according to the publisher, there are at least three reviews available for his book (one of which is a website, the other two are German periodicals): http://www.chessgate.de/buch_philidordeutsch.html -- while not sufficient by itself, together with being almost notable for WP:NCHESS and his achievements in Shogi I think there is a (weak) case for notability. -- hroest 18:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:39, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.