The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Kurykh ( talk) 23:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC) reply

Canadian Voices

Canadian Voices (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Deconstructing Dinner (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Delete. Two poorly sourced articles about radio programs produced by a single community radio station. While both programs are claimed to have been syndicated to various other radio stations in Canada, and thus would pass WP:NMEDIA if they could be reliably sourced as such, all of the sourcing shown here is to the programs' own self-published content about themselves, with no evidence of independent media coverage shown at all. Bearcat ( talk) 18:27, 30 December 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. Bearcat ( talk) 18:28, 30 December 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. Bearcat ( talk) 18:28, 30 December 2016 (UTC) reply

• Keep, both need more sources but both seem quite notable for their guests, topics, and format. Canadian Voices, a non-profit show, was broadcast and seemingly syndicated across 37 college radio stations in Canada and one in the US, so it's not a local program but a national show. The Deconstructing Dinner article is about an internationally syndicated prominent show, program, and other topic areas which have been host to many extremely prominent food safety advocates, and seems a one-of-a-kind topic which for many reasons is notable. Randy Kryn 16:10, 10 January 2017 (UTC) reply

Notability, for Wikipedia's purposes, is entirely a factor of whether the topic can be shown as the subject of enough reliable source coverage in media to pass WP:GNG — there's nothing that an article can claim about its topic that gets it included in Wikipedia, if it's just asserted without proper referencing for it. But I've done the necessary searches, in more than one place, and found that the depth and breadth of coverage needed to get the articles referenced properly simply isn't out there — Deconstructing Dinner gets namechecked a couple of times in articles about other things, but there's no substantive coverage about it on either Google or ProQuest, and Canadian Voices gets even less than that. There's simply none of the kind of media coverage it takes, and a radio show does not get a Wikipedia article just by having a self-published website about itself. Bearcat ( talk) 17:28, 10 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• Delete neither the sources now on the page, nor those I can find support notability. Creator should read WP:RS. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 15:59, 15 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• Comment above was about Canadian Voices. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 12:20, 31 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• Don't know if editors know there are two pages listed here. Both needs sources but are notable per the page, and both, as well as a third page up for deletion, seem to be the only progressive radio programs in Canada, which may explain their lack of cites. Deconstructing Dinner's page, for example, includes "It is one of the only sources of media in Canada and the U.S. solely dedicated to investigating the origins and impacts of food choices and sharing the stories of people and communities who are constructing food systems abroad." Canadian Voices and the other page are similarly unique in their subject matter. All three pages should be relisted again and notices given to other appropriate Wikipedia projects besides the two listed. Randy Kryn 14:29, 21 January 2017 (UTC) reply

Notability on Wikipedia is entirely a matter of whether the article is properly sourceable or not. There is no way for a topic to be notable enough for an article in the absence of enough reliable sourcing about that topic to carry the notability — because notability is inherently a measure of sourceability. It's not a measure of whether any individual user does or doesn't care about the topic, or of how "unique" the topic claims to be — it's a measure of the degree to which the topic is or is not the subject of reliable source coverage in media, and if that simply doesn't exist then the article simply does not get to be kept regardless of what type of significance or uniqueness its own self-published content about itself claims that it has. Bearcat ( talk) 20:27, 22 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• Keep per Randy Kryn. There is adequate if not tons of source material, the program appears to be well-distributed and the guests who appear are notable entities. I would concur that more projects should be noted, particularly WikiProject British Columbia. Montanabw ^(talk) 19:59, 25 January 2017 (UTC) reply

Where is there "adequate source material", exactly, given that there's no reliable sourcing locatable about either show on either Google News or ProQuest? You can't just assert that adequate sources exist, if no adequate sources have been shown to exist. Bearcat ( talk) 17:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• Comment – Note that a total of two articles are nominated for deletion herein, but the last two !votes only appear to be addressing the Canadian Voices article listed atop the nomination, per the singular nouns used in the prose (e.g. "neither the sources now on the page...", "the program appears to be ...") (italic emphasis mine). North America ¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:29, 31 January 2017 (UTC) reply
• Deconstructing Dinner. Sources: I ran a proquest search, which turned up a 2008 article in the Mission City Record of Mission City, British Columbia, promoting a cross-Canada bicycle ride by the program's two hosts undertaken to The two co-producers are quoted saying that Deconstructing Dinner began on "January 2006 at Kootenay Co-op Radio CJLY in Nelson." (that's Nelson, British Columbia). Also, in 2004, the Nanaimo News Bulletin in Nanimo, British Columbia ran an announcement about this as a new program. So, all of this is uber local. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 12:41, 31 January 2017 (UTC) reply

Note that "Deconstructing Dinner" was a phrase that had some currency at the time, so searches turn up hits to articles with this title tha thave nothing to do with this program. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 12:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• However, in 2009 the Moncton, New Brunswick Times & Transcript ran a story entitled "The future of local food: deconstructing dinner" which is partly focused on this program, and interviews one of the program's co-producers. Here's that text: " Leading the presentation and discussion at the Dieppe Market will be Jon Steinman from Nelson, B.C. His remarkable radio program entitled "Deconstructing Dinner" serves as a sounding board for his belief that "food deserves far more attention than it currently receives and that we owe it to this planet and each other to fully understand the implications of our food choices." His broadcasts bring together farmers, journalists and researchers who "deconstruct the issues" to provide deeper context to consumers across the country. Those of you with an internet connection can access past programs at any time via podcasts. A podcast is simply a file found at a website that can be opened by your computer to play an audio recording. In other words, radio when you want it. A wide ranging list of food related topics is covered by this unique program that is heard on 34 radio stations." The article is a feature, not by one of paper's journalists, but by a writer described as "a founding member of Post Carbon Greater Moncton, President of the Riverview Environmental Strategies Committee, and writes a column called Energy Matters for the Saint John Telegraph Journal." Here: [1]. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 12:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC) reply

• Redirect Deconstruciton Dinner to CJLY-FM. In addition to the above, there were a number of stories about this program in small publications in British Columbia. Another paper in Moncton listed the talk he gave there, and at least one paper in another province took note of the fund-raising bike ride. It may be that sources exist elsewhere (I stopped with after the Proquest news archive search detialed above) but I did not see enough to persuade me that this passes WP:GNG. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 13:04, 31 January 2017 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.