The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep.
Nja247 09:05, 1 May 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep- Comparing this article to the one mentioned by the nom is, well, bullshit (there really should be a
WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST to go with
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). Just because an article is on a word, doesn't mean that it falls under
WP:NOTDIC, and this one certainly doesn't. Its written from an encyclopedic standpoint, not a dictionary one. Its also reasonably sourced, and I'm sure more can be added. In short, there's no reason for deletion.
Umbralcorax (
talk) 16:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment -
WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST is irrelevent. The REASON that
Red Cunt Hair was deleted equally applies here I justr didn't want to have to retype every given argument, which is as applicable here, as it is there. ...MistyWillowstalk 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep It is an important enough word that it should have an article explaining it. Where else but WP could a person find this information?
Steve Dufour (
talk) 18:01, 25 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Wiktionary would be the obvious answer.
DreamGuy (
talk) 00:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep - This article is far more than a mere dictionary/wiktionary entry. It is written in an encyclopaedic style. The article needs some work, but that's no reason for deletion.
The Bearded One (
talk) 18:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment that is exactly the reasoning the people who wanted to keep Red Cunt Hair used. But the prevailing arguments, were that it was still an article about word/phrase usage. The same holds true here: Bullshit is just a word, and the article is just an article about the word usage. that is the essence of
WP:NOTDIC...MistyWillowstalk 06:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep - It borders on wiktionary content, but there's enough encyclopedic content to warrant it staying around.
Shadowjams (
talk) 18:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep per above. It is appropriate for an encyclopedia, and there's definitely enough encyclopedic content on it.
Timmeh! 22:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep - Yes this is bullshit. This nomination reminds me of the time someone nominated
garbage heap of history for deletion. Everyone knows you can't throw an object onto itself.
Pontiff Greg Bard (
talk) 03:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep bullshit. Extremely important concept, in addition to being, after hydrogen, one of the most abundant substances in the known universe. We all produce it; we all complain about it; we all need to read about it and understand it. Without this article, there would be no bullshit in Wikipedia, and that would be a sad thing, in addition to being quite impossible. Oh, it's also verifiable and reliably sourceable, and not just to bovine orifices.
Antandrus (talk) 05:04, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment the above three keeps fall under
WP:ILIKEIT, and for the third one maybe
WP:ITSFUNNY. What's bullshit, is the idea that bullshit is encyclopedic. ...MistyWillowstalk 06:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment -- no -- read what I wrote. It's verifiable and sourceable. Look at the "Further Reading" and "References" sections, please.
Antandrus (talk) 13:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment Being verifiable and sourceable and well referenced, by itself, does not make something encyclopedic. bullshit is still just an idiom, Red cunt hair and Clusterfuck, were well referenced, verifiable and sourceable, they were deleted because they were just idioms, not encyclopedic topics. I could easily find plenty of source material to write an article about, Yay, Kiss my ass, Fucktard or even Grody.
WP:NOTDIC is meaningless if you could just turn a word into an encyclopedic, just topic by having a bunch of source material to reference. ...MistyWillowstalk 17:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment the above comments by the nominator mistook the intention of this editor's pithy statement. Bullshit as a word has a 100 year history within the language. I agree that the article could use a clean up, and I intend to cleanup the Bullshit article if it survives the vote. Although the following will be refuted with one of the WP:Whatevers, there exists articles on other subjects of a similar nature (FUCK) which also have wikitionary articles. Consider also that the Bullshit philosophy section could not be incorporated on the Sister Wiki. Further, the above vote stating that this was bullshit was not because it was "funnie" or "the editor likes it," but rather because the nomination was bullshit due to the various reasons already expressed here in many more words.
Peter Napkin Dance Party (
talk) 22:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete. Covered adequately in Wiktionary. Anything useful that isn't there can be transwikied.
WP:NOT#DICDEF.--
Michig (
talk) 06:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment. An article about "bullshitting", i.e. the activity, could possibly be encyclopedic, as this is the part that apparently has sources available, but the rest is pure dictionary definition and surely must go. The article is currently an extended dictionary entry about the word, and that doesn't belong here.--
Michig (
talk) 15:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep the article, but move the Uses of "bullshit" section to wiktionary. bullshit has been the subject of significant encyclopedic work (
On Bullshit for example). --
lucasbfrtalk 09:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep - and as per Lucasbfr, move uses sction to Wiktionary. The further reading alone justifies the existence of the article.
Dougweller (
talk) 11:40, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep I don't see any policy reasons for deletion. Per Doug et al. Other AfD doesn't seem relevant.
Verbalchat
Comment How is it not relevent? The cases are nearly identical ...MistyWillowstalk 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete It's etymology, usage and synonyms - nothing but dictionary/thesaurus material.
WP:DICDEF is a policy and this article blatantly fails it.
Colonel Warden (
talk) 19:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep The article offers more than a dictionary definition. It includes literary uses and commentary on the term as used in society.
Cbl62 (
talk) 19:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment Almost all of those articles, are just about the words, and fail
WP:NOTDIC. If you want an article you their social significance, perhaps they could be merged into the artlcle
Vulgarity,. And this has nothing to do with cleansing Wikipedia, I have no objection to
Bullshit (game),
Penn & Teller: Bullshit!, or
On Bullshit, which are all legitimate articles. ...MistyWillowstalk 03:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Further comment -- "just about the words". I fear that content may play a role. (If not, why are the only comparisons proffered to other "offensive" words?) The argument to merge all such articles into a single article on
vulgarity defeats the purpose of a comprehensive encyclopedia.
Sociolinguistics and
etymology are no less important to an encyclopedia than biology. The "merge with vulgarity" logic could be used to suggest we don't need separate articles on
turtle,
crocodile and
snake, as they could all be collapsed into a single article on
reptiles. For that matter, why have articles on
verb,
noun and
adverb, when they are "just about the words" (to borrow Misty's phrase) and fall into the broader article on
parts of speech?
Cbl62 (
talk) 03:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, that's not quite a fair comparison to make, since the examples you give (turtle, adverb, etc.) are all categories, rather than specific tokens. But in this case, you're right anyway, since this is a word that has enough stuff to be said about it that it warrants an article (as do turtles, crocodiles, and snakes). rʨanaɢtalk/contribs 03:55, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Point taken. My specific analogy was strained, but you get the point.
Cbl62 (
talk) 04:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
A better example is the article on the word "
Thou" -- a thoroughly written piece that is "just about the word." It should not be relegated to a broader article on
pronouns. Some words have sufficient historical, sociological, cultural or other significance to merit an article. "Bullshit" is one of those words.
Cbl62 (
talk) 06:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep This article goes beyond a mere dictionary definition. I just added information on how the expletive played a part in a radio advertising controversy in the 1980 U.S. presidential campaign.
Pastor Theo (
talk) 22:39, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep. Yes, the article needs to be cleaned up. Yes, it focuses more on usage and definition than a Wikipedia article should. But the word itself is an encyclopedic topic and there is enough information out there to write an article about it, rather than just a dictionary definition (words can certainly be notable and can have articles written on them...for other examples, there is
Lesbian, a word article that is almost an FA, as well as the usual suspects like
Gay and
Nigger). Need for cleanup isn't a good reason for deletion. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs 03:36, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep: needs clean up. Passes WP standards for inclusion.--
It's me...Sallicio! 20:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep The article certainly merits inclusion. As said above, it goes beyond the realms of a dictionary definition and has plenty of social significances. Icestorm815 •
Talk 21:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep If you are in favor of deletion, please do a little soul-searching and ask yourself if your opinion of the word's usage is coloring your opinion. It is irrefutable fact that the word is spoken behind closed doors in professional office environments (such as my own). Anything less than objectivity is censorship. The dictionary argument is weakened by the nature of the article. The research and links are far more than a dictionary entry requires. A dictionary user is looking for a utilitarian working understanding of a word, but an encyclopedia user might be searching for a particular piece of information or a detailed overview, complete with history and analysis. The dictionary article lacks this in-depth information as it should. We the users may have to define this divide ourselves--between the dictionary and encyclopedia--as the digital age matures.
kevinthenerd (
talk) 02:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment The censorship argument is a motherfucking red herring, this has nothing to do with censorship, or any fucking bullshit like that.... All kidding aside: Articles about words really have no place in an encyclopedia, this is just another example of trivia, and from what i've seen here, people vote to keep trivia if they like it. Well even though I actually LIKE articles about swearwords, I have to be honest to say that they don't really belong here given
WP:NOTDIC. And I think that all the people who are voting Keep need to ask themselves why they want it here. Personally I would like to see all the information in articles about words being moved to wiktionary, in their entirety, expanding the scope of wiktionary to be more than just the minimal definitions of words. ...MistyWillowstalk 05:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep. Bullshit is not a word; rather, it is a social and linguistic practice that is named by a word, and the article goes into some depth about the nature of the social ritual named by it. -
Smerdis of Tlön (
talk) 21:11, 30 April 2009 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.