The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure)   Kadzi   ( talk) 20:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Barry Atwater

Barry Atwater (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:NACTOR. Playing Surak in a Star Trek episode appears to be the pinnacle of his success, and that's not enough. Clarityfiend ( talk) 08:15, 22 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:38, 22 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 08:38, 22 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• Comment I see significant coverage. I'll start adding it. Star Trek was not the high point of his career. DiamondRemley39 ( talk) 00:04, 23 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep as meets WP:GNG. I've been going through sources and I've added some to the article. More reviews to read, his other name to search for, info on his father/early life/UCLA to seek out, and scifi sources to investigate and add. DiamondRemley39 ( talk) 01:14, 23 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Keep Is this nomination a joke? Atwater was a notable actor of television shows in the 60's and 70's and passes GNG by a mile. I can recall him on Hawaii Five-0 twice, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Mission Impossible, The Twilight Zone, Perry Mason, and Mannix and not in bit roles. His premature death caused him to not to wrack up the longest line of credits.@ Clarityfiend:, who are next? Joe Maross, Richard Bull, Jeff Corey, Jason Evers, Reni Santoni, Harold Gould, Edwards Binns, Robert Webber, Ian Wolfe? I suggest you withdraw this nomination ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:18, 24 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• No, this is not a joke. Where are the solid sources? I see one short article in the The Fremont Argus and another in The North Hollywood Valley Times (which doesn't even have an article), not exactly first-rank newspapers. Other than possibly Horror Noir: Where Cinema's Dark Sisters Meet, nothing else is especially about him. So exactly how is GNG satisfied? Clarityfiend ( talk) 03:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• You're seriously comparing him to Jeff Corey, Harold Gould or even Ian Wolfe? Wolfe, the least notable of this trio, had a Los Angeles Times obituary. Clarityfiend ( talk) 04:04, 25 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Clarityfiend, the sources need to be reliable and secondary. Can you cite a source that the North Hollywood Valley Times is not a "first rank" newspaper, and can you cite something in policy where it says we are to discount articles in papers that are not the national major dailies? Whether or not someone has written an article on the sources is not an indication of it being a reliable secondary source. "Career Aided by Zen, Says Actor" is all about Atwater. I'm still adding sources. DiamondRemley39 ( talk) 19:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Per WP:RS#News organizations, "news reporting from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact (though even the most reputable reporting sometimes contains errors). News reporting from less-established outlets is generally considered less reliable for statements of fact." Seeing as I can't find much other than clippings for the Valley Times (or is it Valley Times TODAY?), I think I'm on solid ground in classifying it as "less-established". A "first rank newspaper" has at least a statewide reputation. Clarityfiend ( talk) 03:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Do you doubt the veracity of some fact in the source or do you just dislike the Valley Times (some years published as Valley Times Today) as a weighty source because you haven't heard of it? I was able to find plenty about it by Googling: its LOC authority record, information on what became of its collections, etc. It was a significant paper in a major metropolitan area. Tell me where in policy it says that "first-rank" means it has a statewide reputation and what exactly statewide reputation means. I can name a few dozen newspapers in the history of my state. Do they all have a statewide reputation? Where is "first-rank" defined? I would have expected "first-rank" to relate to something in terms of quality--Pulitzers or other awards. DiamondRemley39 ( talk) 22:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC) reply

• Leaning keep. The search for sources is complicated by his also-famous father sharing the same name, but the sheer number of newspaper hits in later years suggests more will be found. I have noted, for example, a 1960 Miami Herald review for a performance he did as Abraham Lincoln which is currently not reflected in the article. BD2412 T 05:56, 29 July 2020 (UTC) reply
• Comment I'm still adding things because I'm finding things under his sometime name of G.B. Atwater. Then I need to search for Garrett Atwater. DiamondRemley39 ( talk) 00:00, 30 July 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.