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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) b uidh e 00:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Badge of Glory

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No significant coverage of the novel in secondary sources, therefore does not meet notability criteria. MiasmaEternal TALK 05:54, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 05:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 05:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 05:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Week delete Keep. I concur this likely fails WP:NBOOK. I found [1] and [2] but they seem like blogs, not very reliable. But here's one more reliable and longer review: The Marine Corps Gazette. Marine Corps Association. 1984. pp. 6–. The series may be notable, individual books are less likely. Week delete for now because a single good review is not enough for GNG and such, but if someone finds more good sources, ping me and I will reconsider my vote.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:04, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

    Wikipedia:Notability (books)#Criteria says:

    A book is notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, at least one of the following criteria:

    1. The book has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.
    Here are reviews and other sources:
    1. Josserand, Jeffrey J. (July 1984). "Battle of Glory". Marine Corps Gazette. 68 (1): 69. ISSN  0025-3170. Retrieved 2020-04-10.
    2. Fein, Michael T. (2001-04-01). "Badge of Glory". Library Journal. 126 (6): 153. ISSN  0363-0277. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10.
    3. Hipple, Ted (2000-12-01). "Badge of Glory". Booklist. 97 (7): 740. ISSN  0006-7385. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10.
    4. Burgess, Edwin B. (1983-11-15). "Badge of Glory". Library Journal. 108: 2344. ISSN  0363-0277.
    5. "Badge of Glory". Kirkus Reviews. 1983-01-01. ISSN  1948-7428. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10.
    6. "Badge Of Glory. (Book Review)". Publishers Weekly. 224: 59. 1983-11-18. ISSN  0000-0019.
    Sources with quotes
    1. Josserand, Jeffrey J. (July 1984). "Battle of Glory". Marine Corps Gazette. 68 (1): 69. ISSN  0025-3170. Retrieved 2020-04-10.

      The review notes:

      Mr. Reeman's winning style has been translated into 22 languages and has sold over 12 million copies—proof of his wide appeal. The only problem with his books from a Marine's perspective is that they all have naval officers for heroes. But now this has changed—refreshingly—and we have a new leading figure to whom Marines can really relate. You guessed it; in his new book, Badge of Glory, the central character is Capt Philip Blackwood of the Royal Marines.

      ...

      Douglas Reeman knows the formula for action-packed adventures, mixing just the right amounts of action, drama, and human interest with a reasonable degree of historical accuracy. Clearly, the novel will not win the next Pulitzer Prize, but that doesn't reduce the enjoyment of reading it. Even the most dedicated of us need an occasional break from our professional efforts, and Badge of Glory is glorious leisure reading. I wholeheartedly recommend it for the kids and for any Marine-oriented Dad who grew up on tales of Horatio Hornblower.

    2. Fein, Michael T. (2001-04-01). "Badge of Glory". Library Journal. 126 (6): 153. ISSN  0363-0277. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10.

      The review notes:

      Reeman, who also wrote under the name of Alexander Kent, here presents a tale of the soldiering part of the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines. The characters in Badge of Glory are somewhat standard, with Capt. Philip Blackwood fighting to uphold his family's Marine traditions against the enemy and other officers. This story is unique because of the time period, the early 1850s, and the settings. Blackwood battles slavers in West Africa and then fights the Russians in the Crimea; there are also references to fighting the Maoris in New Zealand. Listeners also learn the effects of the new technologies of rifled musketry and steam power on warfare. David Rintoul is an experienced actor; his narration is clear and moves at a steady tempo. He is versatile, precise, and disciplined, giving each character a distinct and consistent voice. Popular, adventure, and large military collections should consider.

    3. Hipple, Ted (2000-12-01). "Badge of Glory". Booklist. 97 (7): 740. ISSN  0006-7385. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10.

      The review notes:

      The first of four well-read historical novels, Badge of Glory recounts an adventure faced by British Royal Marine Captain Philip Blackwood, circa 1850, as he encounters the mysteries of Africa while trying to adjust to steam-propelled ships, Rintoul superbly captures the seafaring life and the sailors' varied dialects. Hecht flawlessly narrates Hitler's Niece, the fictional (though based on fact)tale of Hitler's saucy and sassy niece, a young woman suspected of being Hitler's true love; listeners will have trouble setting this one aside. The Surgeon's Mate, here abridged, is one of 20 adventure novels about seafarer Jack Aubrey and his friend, Dr. Stephen Maturin. Pigott-Smith's dramatic reading adds flavor to the historically accurate yarn. Forbes beautifully reads With Heart, one of a trilogy of novels set during the depression; this one features a murder and a medical scare in small-town Oklahoma, both brought to a fit conclusion by newspaperwoman Kathleen Dolan.

    4. Burgess, Edwin B. (1983-11-15). "Badge of Glory". Library Journal. 108: 2344. ISSN  0363-0277.

      The review notes:

      Under his own name and as Alexander Kent, Reeman has written many 19th-century and World War II novels. This ambitious, if rather uncontrolled, chronicle of a Royal Marine captain opens in 1850 and concerns the period in which the Royal Navy was switching painfully from sail to steam. Captain Philip Blackwood joins in the campaign to stamp out slavery in West Africa. Later he fights and is wounded in the Crimea. The background is interesting for this downbeat protagonist who muses constantly about courage, honor, and love while engaging in convincingly bloody combat. Readers of the genre will want to see this, but the weak focus, hero's depression, and unconvincing pat ending will put many off.

    5. "Badge of Glory". Kirkus Reviews. 1983-01-01. ISSN  1948-7428. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10.

      The review notes:

      More action follows: in Malta with the Crimea in the offing; in the Black Sea with a majestic sea battle; and Blackwood is struck down as he waves his sword to charge yet again. All the weather-worthy staples are here: the unsung hero, loyal to the Corps, who bucks both the enemy and commanders greedy for glory; doggedly devoted ranks; a lady in distress; fire-power galore; And fans of the military-period saga will continue to find Reeman a reliable, if uninspired, producer.

    6. "Badge Of Glory. (Book Review)". Publishers Weekly. 224: 59. 1983-11-18. ISSN  0000-0019.
    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Badge of Glory to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard ( talk) 05:14, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The problem is that all those other reviews are paragraph long. The are hardly in-depth, and I do wonder if they are non-trivial. Also note that they can be seen as flap copies or such. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:21, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • Piotrus ( talk · contribs), I think reviews in those reputable journals even if on the shorter side should be sufficient to establish notability. But here are additional longer reviews of the book from newspapers:
        1. Christensen, Mike (1984-05-06). "Badge of Glory". The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.
        2. Moon, Wes (1984-03-18). "Badge of Glory". Asbury Park Press. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.
        3. Scheuer, George A. (1984-03-25). "Compelling tale of war and romance: Badge of Glory". South Bend Tribune. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.
        4. Aller, Jim (1984-06-19). "Badge of Glory". Chippewa Herald Telegram. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.
        5. Brown, Alexander C. (1984-03-04). "Badge of Glory. Success To The Brave". Daily Press. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.
        Sources with quotes
        1. Christensen, Mike (1984-05-06). "Badge of Glory". The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.

          The review notes:

          With the hero of his Richard Bolitho series of 18th century sea stories nearing the end of a strenuous career, Douglas Reeman may be casting about for a new character and a fresh century to chronicle. In any event, Reeman now offers us Capt. Philip Blackwood of the Royal Marines and settles him in 1850, when England was scourging the West African coast of slavers and tuning up for the Crimean War.

          ...

          "Badge of Glory" would be a predictable exercise in formula fiction were it not that the experienced Reeman writes so well. For those of us hopelessly hooked on such novels, Blackwell's adventures are a delight.

        2. Moon, Wes (1984-03-18). "Badge of Glory". Asbury Park Press. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.

          The review notes:

          Reeman, equally adept on land or sea in weaving into excitement of combat the historical facts, doesn't fail the reader here. Life in the British marines comes alive, the low value placed on life in general in the era is illustrated, along with the importance of empire building to England and the emergence of Russia as a world power.

          ...

          "Badge of Glory follows the Reeman tradition faithfully. The action sweeps you along from beginning to end.

        3. Scheuer, George A. (1984-03-25). "Compelling tale of war and romance: Badge of Glory". South Bend Tribune. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.

          The review notes:

          This is an epic tale of the Royal Marines and the British Navy on a perilous mission to British West Africa in an effort to curb the slave trade in the middle of the last century.

          A 26-year-old captain, a veteran of campaigning in New Zealand, undertakes the rescue of a medical missionary's attractive daughter from a jungle post under siege by traders. He falls in love with her but loses contact when sent back to England to recover from battle wounds.

          ...

          With its attention to historical detail the book is sure to delight fans of this writer's series of stories about conflict on land and at sea.

        4. Aller, Jim (1984-06-19). "Badge of Glory". Chippewa Herald Telegram. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.

          The review notes:

          Badge of Glory by Douglass Reeman is actually written by the same author that provides us with those wonderful Richard Bolitho stories under the names of Alexander Kent.

          ...

          In spite of treacherous slave traders and narrow-minded admirals, Blackwood distinguishes himself time after time. Wounded several times in battle, our hero continues his efforts and we are allowed to thrill with him as his true worth is realized and some of his commanders are found out to be less than they should be.

          If you enjoy the Bolitho novels, you will surely love this Blackwood tale as well.

        5. Brown, Alexander C. (1984-03-04). "Badge of Glory. Success To The Brave". Daily Press. Archived from the original on 2020-04-10. Retrieved 2020-04-10 – via Newspapers.com.

          The review notes:

          "Badge of Glory," produced under his own name, relates stirring doings of the Royal Marines, England's famous "Red Coats," in mid-19th century when navies of the world were gradually substituting steam for sail.

          ...

          In "Badge of Glory" the protagonist is Capt. Philip Blackwood who joins H.M.S. Audacious, a 90-gun, square-rigged flagship sent to the west coast of Africa to suppress the long-outlawed slave trade which is still flourished in the jungles.

          ...

          Blackwood, despite a badly wounded leg, rescues a fair maiden, a missionary's daughter, from the traditional fate worse than death at the hands of the renegades. Expectedly, he falls in love with her and, at length (on page 357 of a 357-page book), he sweeps her into his arms for the final clinch.

          All very predictable, but nonetheless good entertainment.

        Cunard ( talk) 06:26, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Thank you. The last one is very good, and that would be enough to make me change my vote, together with the others I think it is now clear the book has received enough reviews to be considered passing NBOOK. I've changed my vote above. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:52, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • KEEP Kirkus Reviews are a reliable source [3] Other reviews found as well. Dream Focus 13:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, meets WP:NBOOK and WP:GNG, numerous independent reviews as set out above ( Cunard does it again, YAAY!:)), that are not "trivial" ie. one liners - "this book is great/awfull/thrilling." etc. - this is specifically stated at no. 1 of gng that discusses "significant". Coolabahapple ( talk) 08:13, 11 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The sources identified here demonstrate that the article passes WP:NBOOK and WP:GNG. — Hunter Kahn 23:20, 14 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Notable novel by a notable author. Plenty of coverage. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 09:48, 15 April 2020 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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