- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. North America 1000 00:35, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Ayanda Ngila
AfDs for this article:
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- Ayanda Ngila ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Different enough that it's not a G4. May version (admin only) was actually more comprehensive, but this new stub doesn't overcome sourcing issues raised at the AfD. Star Mississippi 15:19, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Crime, Africa, and South Africa. Star Mississippi 15:19, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping prior participants: @ Ari T. Benchaim, Xclusivzik, PaulPachad, Red Bird 1973, Reading Beans, and Park3r: Star Mississippi 15:21, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- what was the issue with the previous version. I can't access it.
Frombelow (
talk)
16:39, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- There are over 15 independent newspaper articles on his role as a member of the movement, on his high profile arrest and on his assassination. It was all over national news. I still don't understand what the issue is with this article. Not sure what G4 or AfD mean so please explain.
Frombelow (
talk)
17:52, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- just to underline once again, Ngila is a notable leader of this movement of 50,000+ members. His arrest was a high-profile one. His assassination was all over the national news in South Africa - both in terms of news reporting as well as many op-eds as well. It should not be deleted. If there are changes that need to be made to make, please make those suggestions. Frombelow ( talk) 21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @
Frombelow G4 means that while this article was already discussed and the consensus was to delete it (i.e. Ngila is not
notable as defined by Wikipedia standards), the current article is different enough that it won't be automatically deleted, nut rather listed here for discussion to see if consensus has changed. You're welcome and encouraged to continue editing the article as you have done. Other editors will join the discussion and an uninvolved editor will close the discussion when they believe there is consensus. It may be seven days, or it could be longer.
Star
Mississippi
01:01, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
- gotcha. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Frombelow ( talk) 14:16, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
- There are over 15 independent newspaper articles on his role as a member of the movement, on his high profile arrest and on his assassination. It was all over national news. I still don't understand what the issue is with this article. Not sure what G4 or AfD mean so please explain.
Frombelow (
talk)
17:52, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete or move to
Murder of Ayanda Ngila. This organisation has enormous amounts of
WP:UNDUE coverage on Wikipedia. Also, many of the sources fail to meet the criteria for
WP:RS. It might be best to delete this article, and create
Murder of Ayanda Ngila as a redirect to
Abahlali baseMjondolo#Repression where the murder can be described in a few sentences, supported by
WP:RS
Park3r (
talk)
01:42, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
- You seem to have some bias against covering this. Just claiming the organisation has undue coverage on Wikipedia does not make it fact. In the past 3 days, the organisation has been in virtually every single newspaper in the country and on all the national TV news as well (SABC, eTV, Newzroom Africa, etc). It is also the largest social movement in the country. The sources in this article absolutely meet the WP:RS criteria. The sources are all respected mainstream media outlets. Instead of referring to web pages, please be constructive and if there is a specific source that doesn't meet the criteria please cite that specific source.
- I think that Ayanda Ngila needs its own page. He was a notable member of the largest social movement in the country. His arrest was also notable, not just his murder. So I think the page should either say as Ayanda Ngila or alternatively it could be moved to Arrest and Murder of Ayanda Ngila. Frombelow ( talk) 12:49, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to solicit more feedback from editors.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 18:43, 27 August 2022 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:02, 3 September 2022 (UTC)- At what point can't the nomination for deletion be removed?
- The page has been improved significantly and its relevance has increased due to current events including the assassination of two state witnesses of Ngila's murder. People need to have a logical fact-based argument as to why it should be deleted otherwise they should withdraw their nomination.
Frombelow (
talk)
20:34, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- A closer will judge consensus when the time is right. The nomination will not be removed until then.
Star
Mississippi
21:25, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- OK. But when will time be right? Is there no guideline for how long it must take?
Frombelow (
talk)
06:37, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- Beyond the general minimum of seven days, there is not because there is no deadline. Star Mississippi 15:09, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- OK. But when will time be right? Is there no guideline for how long it must take?
Frombelow (
talk)
06:37, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- A closer will judge consensus when the time is right. The nomination will not be removed until then.
Star
Mississippi
21:25, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. I'm tagging the Squatting WikiProject, who would want to be apprised of this, since the article itself was not tagged. I see WP:THREE coverage in the major South African newspapers: [1] [2] [3]. Sure there are a lot of unreliable sources to remove, but AFD is not cleanup. Feel free to rescope to Murder of Ayanda Ngila, but that's a talk page conversation, not a matter of notability. In the event that this incident could be sufficiently covered within Abahlali baseMjondolo#Repression (i.e., merged), that's also a matter for its talk page. czar 18:51, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.