- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. PhantomSteve/ talk¦ contribs\ 14:56, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Astronomical locations in fiction
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What's the point of this article? It's unreferenced and has an unclear scope. It's too broad to ever become an article (like Venus in fiction and like). It doesn't list works (like most 'in fiction' articles, like Venus), just other Wikipedia articles. On talk, it was suggested it's a list of lists, but most of the entries on it are NOT lists. There are zillion of astronomical locations mentioned in fiction. This is just as pointless as an attempt to create locations in fiction would be. Template:Astronomical locations in fiction and Category:Fiction about astronomical locations are sufficient for navigational purposes.
Pinging two editors who discussed this, briefly, on talk. User:DanielRigal and User:LaundryPizza03. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Lists. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete: Reviewed the discussion on the talk page and agree with the editors. Does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of sources, and that includes even some of the articles it's linking to. This is simply too broad to be an article, and even most of the linked articles on this page are in questionable shape for inclusion on Wikipedia. Shooterwalker ( talk) 15:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- I think such a page might be useful as a list of lists... but it seems we've been progressively getting rid of the lists it would reference. Jclemens ( talk) 17:16, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Weak delete. I'd completely forgotten that this exists so I was a little confused when I got pinged about it. The current state of the article is not as sprawling as when I questioned it in 2016 but I'm still not sure that it is very useful. I don't think it adds much over Template:Astronomical locations in fiction, which renders it fairly redundant. What would save it would be to make into more of an actual article. Are there any sources discussing why certain locations are favoured in sci-fi which might make that possible? -- DanielRigal ( talk) 17:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- DanielRigal, templates are not seen on 50% or more of Wikipedia searches (mobile does not show templates) so this is never a reason for deleting information. Please look at it without that reasoning, thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 19:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep, it's still a fine list and navigates readers well, even though it used to be much longer before its entries being chopped down during the last couple of years. The nominator seems unaware that existing templates can not be used as a reason to delete anything (they are not seen on mobile). Remove that and there is actually little reason to delete, the page does no harm to the project and is overall beneficial. Randy Kryn ( talk) 19:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete -- Even assuming this is a navigational list of lists and not a standalone topic, there are two options for it, neither great. Either this encompasses every astronomical location in fiction, which is obviously absurd, or its scope is massively curtailed, at which point it is misnamed and not useful for navigation. Gnomingstuff ( talk) 21:23, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete The articles in this index have been deleted or are no longer lists, making this redundant to
Category:Fiction about astronomical locations and
Template:Astronomical locations in fiction. –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 21:58, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Again, a 'delete' citing an existing template as a reason. I guess this can't be emphasized enough here in AfDland - templates are not seen on mobile. Thus over 50% of Wikipedia's readers are offered no "redundant" template to look at (are categories still not on mobile? I'm not sure). Since the existence of the template is still present in the nomination, and people are using it as a reason to delete, this AfD request is malformed and should be withdrawn. At the very least, if the language and votes still exist when the closer comes calling, the article should be kept on procedural reasons alone.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 23:30, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Nobody is saying this should be deleted b/c the template exists, it's existence is just a side note to this failing WP:GNG/ WP:NLIST. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:35, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- Again, a 'delete' citing an existing template as a reason. I guess this can't be emphasized enough here in AfDland - templates are not seen on mobile. Thus over 50% of Wikipedia's readers are offered no "redundant" template to look at (are categories still not on mobile? I'm not sure). Since the existence of the template is still present in the nomination, and people are using it as a reason to delete, this AfD request is malformed and should be withdrawn. At the very least, if the language and votes still exist when the closer comes calling, the article should be kept on procedural reasons alone.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 23:30, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per Gnomingstuff. This is not separately notable without WP:SIGCOV. Someone could try to change the scope, but it seems equally impossible to write an overall " space in fiction" article. I might suggest a redirect to stars and planetary systems in fiction, but that article is in terrible shape. Jontesta ( talk) 13:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I don't see if it is possible to turn this into an article. Mukt ( talk) 17:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per
WP:CLT, and probably rename to reflect that this isn't an article, it's a list (a list of lists, to be exact).
ansh.
666 23:42, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- @
Ansh.666 Can you point out which lists are actually listed from that article?
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 03:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- All of these pages used to be lists of works of fiction which contained the titular astronomical body, though it seems like they've been gutted and converted to prose by
User:TompaDompa in the past year. This page still has the "list of lists" template at the bottom though.
ansh.
666 03:30, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- Gutted is a rather unfair way to describe rewriting unencyclopedic trivia into encyclopedic prose content. And since no lists are linked, we cannot call it a list of lists, methinks.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 05:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it was the right thing to do, but there was a lot of information removed. Either way, the list of lists thing doesn't matter as far as CLT goes, it's still a valid duplicate of the template.
ansh.
666 07:52, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- Which policy allows for a duplication of templates in the form of articles, presumably for navigationa purposes? I don't think it's a valid
WP:DISAMBIG.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 09:46, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- I already cited it in my original comment, it's the guideline
WP:CLT.
ansh.
666 19:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- Right, but such lists still need to meet GNG policy per
WP:LISTN, don't they?
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 07:42, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- Not really, per
WP:LISTN:
Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.
ansh. 666 19:41, 28 September 2022 (UTC)- In all honesty, I don't see how this list fullfils such purposes, at it doesn't seem like a searchable term. Astronomical location or Astronomical locations are not even redirects to anywhere, this is a technical list that's has zero visiblity outside Wikipedia and the few editors writing such topics. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:40, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- Not really, per
WP:LISTN:
- Right, but such lists still need to meet GNG policy per
WP:LISTN, don't they?
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 07:42, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- I already cited it in my original comment, it's the guideline
WP:CLT.
ansh.
666 19:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- Which policy allows for a duplication of templates in the form of articles, presumably for navigationa purposes? I don't think it's a valid
WP:DISAMBIG.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 09:46, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it was the right thing to do, but there was a lot of information removed. Either way, the list of lists thing doesn't matter as far as CLT goes, it's still a valid duplicate of the template.
ansh.
666 07:52, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- Gutted is a rather unfair way to describe rewriting unencyclopedic trivia into encyclopedic prose content. And since no lists are linked, we cannot call it a list of lists, methinks.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 05:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
- All of these pages used to be lists of works of fiction which contained the titular astronomical body, though it seems like they've been gutted and converted to prose by
User:TompaDompa in the past year. This page still has the "list of lists" template at the bottom though.
ansh.
666 03:30, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- @
Ansh.666 Can you point out which lists are actually listed from that article?
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 03:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
- Rename to
Lists of astronomical locations in fiction; this AfD seems to have been prompted by an ill advised move that should have been subject to discussion.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 16:06, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
- I was not aware this was moved (was it?), but rename won't change the fact that it fails our criteria. If it is a list, how does it meet WP:NLIST? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. WP:IINFO and not a helpful navigational list; people looking for "[planet] in fiction" will just search for that instead. Sandstein 09:15, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.