- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete and redirect to Grab (company)#History. Salvio 08:51, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Anthony Tan
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Spam article. Fails WP:BIO and WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep Talk 14:23, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 14:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 14:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Very promotional indeed, creator likely connected with subject. -- James Richards ( talk) 14:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nomination. No evidence of notability, fails WP:ANYBIO, The edit history suggests possible CoI editing. ~dom Kaos~ ( talk) 15:34, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete a non-notable businessman. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:23, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete: Barely found anything about him. Definitely WP:PROMOTIONAL. Not to mention the name is common. ASTIG😎 ( ICE T • ICE CUBE) 16:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Weak delete Whilst there is some independent coverage, it's not significant. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 22:12, 1 August 2020 (UTC)Changed to weak delete, as some sources do exist. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 10:54, 4 August 2020 (UTC)- Weak keep Changing my vote again, based on sources found by CMD. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 10:10, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Founder of a very significant multinational company, and has received coverage stemming from this like many businesspeople [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. CMD ( talk) 01:39, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- What sources are these? Every single one is these is paid PR. Every single one them, has a picture of him smiling. Every single one of them are primary. All of them state Grab co-founder Anthony Tan in form or another, in the opening sentence. Non of them represent the intellectually indepedent, reliable, secondary sources that are required to prove notability.
scope_creep
Talk 09:55, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- The sources there include the Financial Times and the South China Morning Post. Are they generally considered primary paid PR? The photos do show him smiling though.
CMD (
talk) 10:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- The South China Morning Post states: Anthony Tan, co-founder and chief executive officer of Grab, poses for a photograph in their Singapore office. It is paid PR.
scope_creep
Talk 11:23, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- How does a caption describing a photo obtained from Bloomberg make it paid PR?
CMD (
talk) 12:02, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- Bloomberg is a paid service. It is costs around 24k a year, which is expensive but not for a cbillionaire. You get your picture taken, you get a profile listing, so it comes from that, and you get the terminal. scope_creep Talk 14:42, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- How does a caption describing a photo obtained from Bloomberg make it paid PR?
CMD (
talk) 12:02, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- The South China Morning Post states: Anthony Tan, co-founder and chief executive officer of Grab, poses for a photograph in their Singapore office. It is paid PR.
scope_creep
Talk 11:23, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- The sources there include the Financial Times and the South China Morning Post. Are they generally considered primary paid PR? The photos do show him smiling though.
CMD (
talk) 10:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- What sources are these? Every single one is these is paid PR. Every single one them, has a picture of him smiling. Every single one of them are primary. All of them state Grab co-founder Anthony Tan in form or another, in the opening sentence. Non of them represent the intellectually indepedent, reliable, secondary sources that are required to prove notability.
scope_creep
Talk 09:55, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and the other comment above. Olaf Kosinsky ( talk) 15:43, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To allow more analysis of CMD's sources, which were presented relatively late in the AfD.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Relisting comment: To allow more analysis of CMD's sources, which were presented relatively late in the AfD.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom Devokewater @ 09:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- A few more sources: Business Times (from Singapore), Bangkok Post, China Times (from Taiwan), the Harvard and Forbes profiles are already in the article, and brief mentions/listings include Fortune listing and Nikkei award. No evidence has been put forward that "every single one" of these is paid PR, or that any individual one is. In addition, the subject is mentioned in all sorts of easily found sources in connection to Grab that might qualify within "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". CMD ( talk) 11:09, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- The first two are PR style
WP:PUFF pieces. The photograph on the first is copyright GRAB, so they are both PR style press releases. The second one
Mr Tan's daily routine is simple. He works out at a gym, prays (he is a devout Christian), and works on his e-mail. He says he turns down almost 95% of invitations and most media interviews because his schedule is already quite occupied.
is also PR WP:PUFF. The third one is a company ref and again PR. No one is saying that there is not coverage. It is the type of coverage. Its not intellectually-independent, reliable and a secondary source. It is all WP:PUFF, all of it to advertise his business. scope_creep Talk 11:16, 5 August 2020 (UTC) - Also these X of Y, 40 under 40 are non-notable per policy. The second is notable, but has been award to the company, Grab.
scope_creep
Talk 12:04, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- The sources I've listed are newspapers and other sources independent of Grab interviewing and profiling the CEO of a very visible multi-national company. The pieces are quite positive, but this is hardly uncommon, and is not evidence of all of these sources from unrelated outlets all being paid advertisements. The copyright of photos used, and that the photos have the subject smiling, are unusual attributes on which to stake claims of puffery. Further, you have misread the Nikkei source, as the award went to the individuals, not to the company. CMD ( talk) 12:27, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Chipmunkdavis. I have been working on the coin noticeboard for 10 years and the spam noticeboard for 5 years and I can spot a press release or PR release very easily. You can't because you have only 36 Afd's where I've done more 2000 odd. You can't seem to differentiate between them, and you assume because it in the good newspapers, somehow it is actually valid, when it is now the reverse. Good newspaper publish press releases and PR like its going out of fashion. They will publish anything that gets the money, to keep them afloat. In the 90's, good newspapers like The Times, the Guardian, the Scotsman, Japan Times, Baltimore Sun, The LA Times, the NY Times, Der Spiegel, Zeit Online, Nigeria Independent wouldn't spit on the press release, or PR, before the internet. Now with social media and tech companies like Google and Facebook crucifying them, stealing their content and business, they now publish stuff they wouldn't have looked in the 90's. So it is bit puzzling why you insist on pushing these spammy sources without a valid reason and against the current consensus. As regards the award, it is under the winners for economic and business innovation. According to the article, the section used to be called Regional Growth. It is certainly a notable award as it has an article, but insufficient coverage and extensive spammy nature of many reference don't engender much in the way of confidence that there is sufficient coverage. scope_creep Talk 14:16, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- In addition. Forbes is deprecated. It is a spammy source well.
scope_creep
Talk 14:17, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you, I'm already familiar with that aspect of the industry, including Forbes. I'm open to the idea that some or all of these pieces are paid for, but the assertion would be more convincing if it wasn't based on the source of a photo's copyright, and whether subjects in photos are smiling. I'm providing sources because that's one of the advised actions on AfD. On the Nikkei source I was correcting the assertion that the award wasn't to the individuals, and I can't tell from your reply whether that is noted or not. There is as I said above a wide variety of sources where he is mentioned, not trivially but not as the focus, with the focus being his actions within Grab, or interviews based on his position as CEO. CMD ( talk) 00:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- The first two are PR style
WP:PUFF pieces. The photograph on the first is copyright GRAB, so they are both PR style press releases. The second one
- Suggest redirect to Grab (company)#History since he's mentioned there and isn't notable for anything other than his work with Grab. ~ KN2731 { talk · contribs} 16:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to Grab (company)#History: Changed my vote, per KN2731. As a valid WP:ATD. ASTIG😎 ( ICE T • ICE CUBE) 05:11, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to Grab (company)#History per KN2731. A valid WP:ATD. // Timothy :: talk 17:04, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.