Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Amit_Offir References

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No convincing argument made for keeping, while the delete arguments are policy-based. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 05:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Amit Offir

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All of the sources are self published, interviews, amazon book links. Not sure whether just the authority control items make him notable or not. The creator and the significant contributor themselves added the COI tag. Editor General of Wiki ( talk) 16:23, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:59, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:59, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:59, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 16:59, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Delete Offir doesn't appear to be notable as an author, an artist, a time management specialist, or for any other reason. The article appears to be an autobiography created and curated by an editor whose edits are all related to Offir. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 18:36, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply
Delete as WP:G11. Then Amit can go and create a new time management course: "How to get your Wikipedia autobiography deleted in record time". (Hot tip: by not creating it in the first place). Just imagine, millions of people could benefit from this by not wasting their time trying to get their promotion on Wikipedia, and Wikipedia editors could save thousands of hours of time-consuming deletion discussions. -- Vexations ( talk) 21:35, 15 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Do Not Delete This is so nice to see what are you writing about Mr. Amit offir. instead of helping fix the errors I have made (I am not a pro in wiki) you are insolting someone that is doing a great effort to make this world better. He is not only an author but a publisher of other author's books. my original language is Hebrew so my eng is not perfect. this is why I have made some mistakes while uploading the contcnt. please be fair and help keep this page. this author is a very important one in Israel and he should have a page on wiki because of his contribute to human kind. i dont know how to edit the page correctly so I am asking for your help guys. please help me fix it! thank you. This is a man's life and hard work he have done over the years. I am sorry that the references are linking to newspaper and tv. stations in Hebrew, vietnamese and other languages but please verify it and you will see that it is all real references. thank you
Mr. Amit Offir is not only self published - He is published with at least 10 different publishing houses before he opened a formal publishing house and literary agency. He is published with around 4-5 publishing houses in Israel, 3 publishing houses in Vietnam, 1 In America (Zipit), 1 in Poland, 1 in china, 1 in Russia. and I can show you proof to all of course. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 16:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Lihi g The error you have made is that you wrote an egregiously promotional article. It is so bad that it cannot be fixed by regular editing and should be completely rewritten, if at all. Wikipedia is not a means of promotion. Based on the sources provided in the article that I have reviewed, Offir is not notable by our standards. Hence the article should be deleted. If you can provide evidence of significant coverage in independent, reliable sources, then please do so, and rewrite the article from a neutral point of view. Nobody is making fun of you because English is not your first language, certainly not me. English is not my first language either. I do reserve the right to make fun of Mr. Offir: Surely, one can see the irony in being both a "time management expert" and making 500,000 drawings on pebbles. Vexations ( talk) 17:17, 16 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Thank you for your reply. I was working very hard to provide all evidence by linking to all major and reliable NEWS, TV., Radio and Articles pooving these facts and if you translate the articles you could find that it is all written there and also over the Tv from Vietnam, Malta and Israel. I dont know how to proof it otherwise but a little check from your side will proove all of it. such this link to Wena Polish publishing house - http://wenastudio.nazwa.pl/wena/autorzyautorki/amit-offir-eyal-nir/ that shows that Mr/ Amit Offir is a published author as well as in all 10 or more other publishing houses that was publishing his books around the world. He also in voluntiring around the world (also proven) and he donating for TREE PLANTING for every book that is getting published in his PUBLISHING HOUSE. I think He has alot of Notability and a little effort can help his leggacy be inspiring to other people. please help me or tell me what to do step by step in order to fix that. The page was ok untill I wanted to make more links to Mr. Offir update News from the last several years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 18:10, 16 September 2018 (UTC) reply

this is also another link to another publishing house that have published 4 books by Amit Offir years ago - in 2000 which was just been published in Vietnam this year - https://www.gvanim-books.com/product-page/%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A9-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%A4%D7%A9-%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A8

also - ZIPIT is a global company that have published many books by Amit Offir in various languages - https://just-zipit.com/search?collection=all&type=product&x=10&y=11&q=amit+offir — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 18:17, 16 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Lihi g, please don't misunderstand. We are not here to decide whether Mr. Offir is doing good work or whether he is important. We are trying to decide whether he meets the minimum requirements to qualify for an encyclopedia article on English Wikipedia, something we call Notability. There are a number of nuances, but the general idea is that in order to qualify for an encyclopedia article, a subject has to receive significant coverage from multiple independent reliable sources.

This morning I read the obituary of Ruby Washington, the first African-American female staff photographer for The New York Times. I wanted to write an article about her, because she sounds like an important person, but I can't find significant coverage of her life—I can find her photos in thousands of New York Times articles and dozens of books, and in the collection of the Smithsonian Institution, but I can't find sufficient sources to establish her "notability".

That may be the case with Mr. Offir. We need coverage of him (not his books) by independent reliable sources (not his publishers' websites). Has any news source done a profile of him, including his childhood and education? Those are the sorts of things that make a person notable. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:50, 16 September 2018 (UTC) reply

(And sources don't have to be in English. We have editors who read other languages and tools such as Google Translate that help us. The key thing is the source, not the language. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:52, 16 September 2018 (UTC)) reply

thank you for your kind reply. please let me understand what kind of things you need as evidence. Mr. Amit Offir have published many books and his drawing technique as well as hit time managemnt technique are helping so many people around the world in the most deserted places so exept from interviews to tv. about it, radio and newpapers and also pictures of him teaching around the world, saving animals and contribute to our planet what more do you need? please let me know and I will be happy to do the research and upload it - with a little bit of help from your side to make the page in the right format - i think this is the purpose of wiki, isnt it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 21:11, 16 September 2018 (UTC) reply

"Comment @ Lihi g: We are not discussing if he is good or have done something for the humanity. Wikipedia contains pages for highly notorious (notable for negative deeds) people also. We have pages for Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy etc. So issues here are WP:NOTABILITY and WP:NOTADVERTISING.

To pass notability criteria we need multiple published sources which are:

Significant (Not just trivial mention or inclusion in a list of similar subject.)
Secondary (Not interviews and articles where the subject talks about himself)
Reliable (Not blog, forum, personal website, commercial book store, news sites with poor editorial integrity)
Independent (Not self published and self promoting videos, self written books or articles, paid news, press releases, personal website)

So, you might ask what kind of sources are accepted then?? You have to read WP:RS to clearly understand. Moreover, Wikipedia prohibits promotion through it's platform. Wikipedia is not a blog, web hosting service, social networking service, or memorial site, nor a soapbox or means of promotion. - Editor General of Wiki ( talk) 05:28, 18 September 2018 (UTC) reply

"Comment thank you for your kind reply. I deleted all of the links to interviews and things that Mr. Offir says to the news. now there are only articles about him and author's sites that present him. I have also put all together all the publishing houses that have published Mr. Offir's books or at least what I have been able to discover. please let me know if there is anything more that I can change to make the page better. thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 07:10, 17 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Comment The page has been on the encyclopedia for more than 5 years with over 200 edits. The references cited initially were strong to prove that Amit Offir is notable. I cannot read Vietnamese, Chinese, and other languages but I see news links, interviews, and videos when I search for his name online and believe that there would be enough published sources to establish notability for the subject. I suggest to either go back to the original content of the page that allowed it to stay for 5 years or translate the news links available online and refresh the content. RajkGuj ( talk) 08:20, 18 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Comment- @ RajkGuj: Can you put here the link of the version of the article that you think contains strong references? And also put the links of the sources which would help us to keep his article in Wikipedia. Thanks. - Editor General of Wiki ( talk) 09:04, 18 September 2018 (UTC) reply

CommentThere are many links to show that Mr. Offir activity around the world is important. His Drawing method 'Drawing Easily' won the Family Choice Award - http://www.familychoiceawards.com/gift-guide/zipit-drawing-easily/ of 2016,(that one wasn't one of the links in the page till now. also there is a link to national TV channel in Vietnam with Israeli ambassador about Israeli literature in Vietnam with the help of Mr. Offir - the owner of an Israeli Publishing house - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypFoAZwMcY&list=PLE2C03470E2AC0D81. At least 10 different publishing houses have published his books, many Tv stations around the world interviewed him. also, Globes News, The biggest news in Israel - https://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=1001123887 is a good source. there is also this News from Tv channel from Israel - in the bookfair in Germany who decided to cover the event and interview him as a publishing house from Israel and bestselling author - https://www.calcalist.co.il/consumer/articles/0,7340,L-3722998,00.html

and also this artice - https://www.calcalist.co.il/local/articles/0,7340,L-3616871,00.html I will try to put it back on the page. If someone here can please help me edit the page a little bit so it would fit wiki I will appreciate it a lot. thank you very much for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs)

Comment I have done some more research on Mr. Amit Offir and found that he have more books, some been illustrated by him and some are also written and illustrated by him. I did a research and found more and more ISBN numbers of all publishing houses around the world that have published his work and books. I have edited the page again and also put here a link I think will show and proove that Mr. Offir has been published by many publishing houses around the world, and many other books have been published by his Publishing house itself: https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA+%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A8&qt=results_page. I will also add the link to the Israeli National Library where you can see all of Amit Offir's books http://merhav.nli.org.il/primo-explore/search?query=any,contains,%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA%20%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A8&vid=NLI&search_scope=Local&sortby=rank&tab=default_tab&lang=iw_IL&mode=simple&fromRedirectFilter=true. I hope that it means that you will consider to save this page due to the new sources. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 12:32, 22 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Delete Most of the references are OCLC number of his books. The article, at its current state fails WP:GNG. Dial911 ( talk) 23:23, 22 September 2018 (UTC) reply

CommentDidnt you see all the ISBN for all of his books, also appear in the page? If you could help with formating the page into the right form that will be much better than just critisizing the page. Please try to help out with appearance of the page so it will not be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Comment I have counted 10 ISBN to the page of different publishing houses published Mr. Offir's books. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 10:31, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Comment you also can check mr. Offir's ISBN here - https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=amit+offir&qt=owc_search and here - https://www.google.co.il/search?biw=1152&bih=722&ei=KWynW7DoEoGKrwS7q4KIBA&q=Amit+Offir+ISBN+list&oq=Amit+Offir+ISBN+list&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i21k1.2485.3234.0.3377.4.4.0.0.0.0.187.502.0j3.3.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.3.502...33i160k1.0.YbKMEYYFdEU

I don't know why you think an ISBN is relevant. An ISBN is good to have in a citation, because it makes it easier to find a book. It does not establish that the author or the publisher of such a book is notable in our special sense of the word. I can request a block of ISBN numbers from my local ISBN agency and have them issued to me pretty much immediately. Vexations ( talk) 11:13, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

CommentAre you being cynical sir? Did you take 1 minute to look at the author's resume or you're just writing cynical comments for no reason? This author have so many books with different publishing houses and this comment is just a making this all conversation a waste of my deep research about the author. You can argue that ISBN numbers are just something that you can buy in the store because every one of the ISBN that are mentioned here has link to the acctual books the author wrote and illustrated over the years. If it is written wrong please let me know and I will try to fix it or if you can contribute and help fixing it please do, that will help a lot. Wiki is supposed to be nutral help people like me that are no experts in it to want to help contributing more rellevant pages to its site. I want to add this link - it's to Mr. Offir's Literary Agency official Website (Squirrel Rights Agency) - http://vi.squi-agency.com/ I just found this info now after more research I have done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 13:42, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

I'm quite serious. Publishing lots of books does not make a person notable. Significant coverage in independent, reliable sources does. I see no indication that you have understood what notability as we use it means. Please tell me that you have read and understood WP:N, then provide sources per that guideline. Vexations ( talk) 14:57, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

CommentHi, first of all thank you for your answer. I did read it and after reading I have added more strong sources. but again, Im not a pro with wiki so I am asking for your help because I might have made something wrong while editing the page. I know that having a literary agent must mean a lot, multi-language translations of his books, donations, TV, Radio and articles and also the owner of a respected publishing house so if it is just a matter of formatting the page and fixing it, can someone here help me with fixing it please? Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 2018-09-23 16:12:21 (UTC)

The problem is not formatting. What we're trying to decide here is whether Amit Offir meets Wikipedia's notability criteria. The only source so far that comes close to a usable source is https://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=1001123887 which makes such outlandish claims that they would need to verified by other (independent) sources to be credible. The way to fix the article is to find sources that discuss Offir in-depth. The only sources I have found are https://news.zing.vn/chuyen-gia-do-thai-bat-mi-bi-quyet-dan-dau-trong-moi-cuoc-dua-post757684.html, https://news.zing.vn/gap-go-nguoi-viet-500-cuon-sach-trong-1-nam-post757639.html and http://baodansinh.vn/nguoi-be-khoa-thoi-gian-chia-se-bi-quyet-lam-viec-hieu-qua-d60396.html which all have the same problem: extraordinary claims that are not supported by evidence. Vexations ( talk) 18:24, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

CommentI can resend again Mr. Offir's 1 hour talk on the Radio station, many photos of him showing his way of life, some videos that shows how fast can he draw in his seminars or even a link to all of his books in various languages that have been published over his 20 years of his career. Can you please explain more on how can I help with finding these evidence that will ease your mind and I will do my best. I also didn't understand if you have looked at the link to Mr. Offir's Literary Agency. isn't it a good source and all of the ISBN numbers of his books taken from the National Library of Israel and also from the World Catalog of books that are both credibble sources. Thank you Sir. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lihi g ( talk • contribs) 20:34, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

I don't know how to help you. You say you have read and understood WP:N, but you still think that photos of him showing his way of life, ideos that shows how fast can he draw, a link to all of his books are suitable sources. They are not. You need to show us what other people have written about him. Vexations ( talk) 20:51, 23 September 2018 (UTC) reply

Comment Please check these sources - What ohther people think about Mr. Offir. 1. http://siayla.blogspot.com/2014/02/review-how-to-draw-books-by-amit-offir.html 2. http://booksthattugtheheart.blogspot.com/2013/03/reviews-how-to-draw-by-amit-offir.html 3. https://lynnadavidson.com/2014/08/07/book-review-how-to-draw-forest-fairies-step-by-step-practical-guide-for-beginners-by-amit-offir/ 4. Family Choice Award - http://www.familychoiceawards.com/gift-guide/zipit-drawing-easily/ 5. https://www.ereverev.co.il/article.asp?id=30368 6. http://michalmotivation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_21.html 7. https://ebookreviewgal.com/how-to-draw-series-by-amit-offir/ 8. https://www.sanfoundry.com/best-reference-books-fashion-model-drawing/ - please let me know if you accept to undelete the page

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.