- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Tone 20:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Amit Munjal
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- Amit Munjal ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Have been trying to trim promotional content and unsupported claims, like having been CFO of Citi Holdings, but it is like wading through treacle. His company Doctor Insta has been deleted and salted, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doctor Insta, so cannot really see how he can be notable but not his company. Edwardx ( talk) 14:08, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:33, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:34, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:34, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete a non-notable businessman. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Keep he was the CFO of Citi Rel Holdings. Please see Bloomberg for verification. Also, he is well regarded and often quoted with more than 50 independent sources appearing on Google Search. His company Doctor Insta is also used by hundreds of thousands of people with tens of thousands of reviews on Google Play Store and Apple App Stores. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nevada2020 ( talk • contribs) 07:27, 19 February 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock.— Nevada2020 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.- Keep notable Indian American with scores of 3rd party references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.111.23.19 ( talk) 07:55, 20 February 2019 (UTC) — 42.111.23.19 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 12:43, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 12:43, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Keep. Plenty of coverage in independent sources to satisfy WP:BIO—not "scores", but plenty. Non-notability isn't inherited any more than notability is. The article's language is promotional in places, but we fix that through editing, not deletion. Lagrange 613 19:04, 25 February 2019 (UTC)Delete per below. Lagrange 613 04:28, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment Editors are stating that such coverage exists, so perhaps you (or someone else) could point me to two sources that amount to
WP:SIGCOV ?
Edwardx (
talk) 02:02, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
- Here are two:
[1]
[2]. For others, see the article's
References section.
Lagrange
613 02:30, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment – Lagrange613, both of the sources provided by you are the interviews of the subject to promote his non-notable Doctor_Insta company. They aren't even discussing the subject of this AfD, and are non-independent to start with. So they don't count toward notability – see WP:GNG. BTW, a cursory glance at the ref-bombing of the subject's article shows that the references are his interviews to promote his company, press-releases, or user-generated sources, none of which count toward notability. So, can you provide sources which have independent, reliable, and in-depth coverage of the subject? - NitinMlk ( talk) 01:11, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Legitimate newspaper interviews constitute
independent coverage, even when the subject is trying to promote something. (That's why they do interviews.) But you're right, the subject of those interviews appears to be his company rather than him. As a side note, the company does appear to satisfy
WP:ORG: see e.g.
[3],
[4],
[5],
[6]. Contrary to what's been claimed several times here, the company article was deleted because it was
unambiguously promotional, not because its subject was
non-notable. I might try my hand at re-creating it when I have the time. In the meantime, no, I'm not able to find significant coverage of Munjal per se, so I'm changing my !vote.
Lagrange
613 04:28, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for reconsidering your !vote. But "legitimate newspaper interviews" do not "constitute independent coverage" when the subject is promoting himself or his company through them, as he has COI in both of the cases. BTW, most of the sources provided by you have a healthy amount of inputs from the company's founder, so they won't be considered as independent – see
WP:ORGIND. Anyway, the creation of the company's article isn't relevant to this AfD. So, it's up to you to decide. -
NitinMlk (
talk) 21:20, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Recall that notability and appropriateness of content are separate (though related) questions: see
WP:NNC and
WP:CONTN. When a newspaper decides to cover a company, that is evidence of the company's notability. For demonstrating notability, the format of that coverage (third-person narrative vs. CEO interview, print article vs. Web) is less important than the decision to cover it. For selecting content, editors need to keep in mind the motives of the different people quoted in the coverage. But that's also format-independent: we need to keep in mind a CEO's COI whether the quotation appears in a full interview or as part of a third-person narrative.
Lagrange
613 14:57, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Just to make clear to the closing admin, we are discussing about Doctor Insta here, which isn't the subject of this AfD. Lagrange613, I won't further discuss here regarding the Doctor Insta, as that's outside the purview of this AfD. But be careful while choosing the sources, as paid promo interviews are quite common in Indian media. Thanks. - NitinMlk ( talk) 20:34, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Recall that notability and appropriateness of content are separate (though related) questions: see
WP:NNC and
WP:CONTN. When a newspaper decides to cover a company, that is evidence of the company's notability. For demonstrating notability, the format of that coverage (third-person narrative vs. CEO interview, print article vs. Web) is less important than the decision to cover it. For selecting content, editors need to keep in mind the motives of the different people quoted in the coverage. But that's also format-independent: we need to keep in mind a CEO's COI whether the quotation appears in a full interview or as part of a third-person narrative.
Lagrange
613 14:57, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for reconsidering your !vote. But "legitimate newspaper interviews" do not "constitute independent coverage" when the subject is promoting himself or his company through them, as he has COI in both of the cases. BTW, most of the sources provided by you have a healthy amount of inputs from the company's founder, so they won't be considered as independent – see
WP:ORGIND. Anyway, the creation of the company's article isn't relevant to this AfD. So, it's up to you to decide. -
NitinMlk (
talk) 21:20, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Legitimate newspaper interviews constitute
independent coverage, even when the subject is trying to promote something. (That's why they do interviews.) But you're right, the subject of those interviews appears to be his company rather than him. As a side note, the company does appear to satisfy
WP:ORG: see e.g.
[3],
[4],
[5],
[6]. Contrary to what's been claimed several times here, the company article was deleted because it was
unambiguously promotional, not because its subject was
non-notable. I might try my hand at re-creating it when I have the time. In the meantime, no, I'm not able to find significant coverage of Munjal per se, so I'm changing my !vote.
Lagrange
613 04:28, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Here are two:
[1]
[2]. For others, see the article's
References section.
Lagrange
613 02:30, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment Editors are stating that such coverage exists, so perhaps you (or someone else) could point me to two sources that amount to
WP:SIGCOV ?
Edwardx (
talk) 02:02, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
Keep Notable Senior Executive, well respected and quoted in India. When he became the CFO of Citi REL, The print media in our region covered his profile and celebrated his success from his small town beginning to getting where he got. Very many Articles and interviews on him are in public domain. For two references on him, here you go: [7] [8]. Wikipedia has a content bias toward western notable individuals when most of the population and notable people are in east. we need to fix it and preserve and publish the profiles of more notable people from east like Munjal rather than just deleting them...my 2 cents. IndiPrince ( talk) 16:29, 27 February 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock.— IndiPrince ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- First source is entirely written by the subject, so it is primary – he is writing about himself. And the second source is again an interview given by him to promote his company. So, none of them count toward his notability. Rest of your arguments are mostly WP:ILIKEIT. - NitinMlk ( talk) 21:20, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- You're right that one element of the English Wikipedia's
systemic bias is bias toward Western subjects. To the extent they favor sources about Western subjects, our core
notability guidelines like
WP:BIO may play a role in perpetuating this bias. However, countering this or any other element of bias doesn't mean disregarding the guidelines for underrepresented subjects. It means editors should (1) take extra care in evaluating the notability of underrepresented subjects and (2) actively seek out opportunities to add or increase coverage of underrepresented subjects. This is part of why I'm planning to take a stab at creating a
neutral version of
Doctor Insta that could survive
WP:AFD.
Lagrange
613 22:22, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- First source is not written by him but by a noted journalist "Brinda DasGupta" from a leading Newspaper of India, "Economic Times"; Request you to read the article again as it clearly states this both at the top and at the bottom of the article. The second source is again a well known business news channel of India, "BTVi" (earlier Bloomberg TV India); You have to be a notable person to be invited for such interviews as an average joe won't get that opportunity. here are 2 more sources with one from an interview done by ET Healthworld Channel for their series "health leaders interview" and another one done by ET Now Channel as part of "Leaders of Tomorrow" series- [9] [10]— Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.64.203.83 ( talk) 07:12, 28 February 2019 (UTC)— 182.64.203.83 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- The first source clearly mentions the following: " As told to Brinda Dasgupta", i.e. he quoted the subject word for word. So, it is a primary source. The two new sources are again his interviews to promote his company – both of them totally focus on his company, not on him. - NitinMlk ( talk) 20:34, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note to the closing admin: As of now, all three !keep votes are by the SPAs who have made a total of five edits between them, and all of those edits are about this AfD's subject. In fact, the very first edit by each one of them on this project was to !vote keep here. And looking at the trend, there may be more SPAs waiting in the wings. I am also not surprised that the subject's article was created via a throwaway account. Even all of his pics were uploaded by an SPA. His company's article was also created multiple times by the similar sock/meat-puppets. In fact, creation of that page only stopped when it got salted last year. So there are signs of COI written all over it. - NitinMlk ( talk) 20:36, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note 2 to the closing admin: I don't understand much of this wiki lingo and I apologize for it. Again, the way something was created shouldn't matter much. what matters is, if the individual is notable and the answer I am getting from a simple web search on the subject is "Yes". 182.64.203.83 ( talk) 07:12, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete no evidence of notability. Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. GSS ( talk| c| em) 11:37, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete – fails WP:GNG. The subject has given a lot of interviews to promote his company, but I couldn't find third-party, in-depth, reliable sources about him. - NitinMlk ( talk) 20:34, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete a WP:SIGCOV and WP:BIO failure, and Munjal does not inherit undue notability from more notable projects they have been affiliated with. Delete.-- SamHolt6 ( talk) 03:13, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.