- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Dr. Universe ( talk) 21:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
Amanda McDougall
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WP:BLP of a mayor, not adequately referenced as passing WP:NPOL #2. As always, mayors are not deemed "inherently" notable just because they exist, so making a mayor notable enough for inclusion is not a question of just showing minimal verification that she exists -- mayoral notability is a question of demonstrating her political significance, by writing and sourcing substantive content about specific things she did as mayor, specific projects she spearheaded, significant effects she had on the development of the community, and on and so forth. But this just verifies her initial election as mayor and sources a small amount of trivia about her career background, which is not enough in and of itself. Bearcat ( talk) 15:12, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Bearcat ( talk) 15:12, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nova Scotia-related deletion discussions. Bearcat ( talk) 15:12, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:38, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep These sources help support notability per
WP:NPOL footnote 8,
A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists
: CBRM councillor who clashed occasionally with mayor announces run for top job (CBC, 2020), Cape Breton mayor started first day in office with new baby boy (Global News, 2021), CBRM mayor speaks of son's condition on World Down Syndrome Day (CTV News, 2021) and WP:BASIC: McDougall defeats Clarke to become 1st female mayor of CBRM (CBC, 2020), Cape Breton elects first female mayor, Halifax council reaches gender parity (Toronto Star, 2020). Beccaynr ( talk) 01:04, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Campaign coverage and verification of election results doesn't cut it. We require coverage about the political impact of her mayoralty: specific things she did as mayor, specific projects she spearheaded, specific effects she had on the development of the city, and on and so forth — just sourcing that she ran and won, something which we can always do for every single mayor who ever mayored in every place that ever had mayors, is not in and of itself enough. We have to be able to write a substantive article about her political significance, not just a short blurb about her election results and a baby.
Bearcat (
talk) 03:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- National news sources found it politically significant that she is the first woman elected mayor of the
Cape Breton Regional Municipality, that she began her term by bringing her child to work, and that she participated in
World Down Syndrome Day, so these sources appear to support
WP:BASIC, and the in-depth features focused on her appear to support
WP:NPOL, and can allow a more in-depth article to be developed. There is also more biographical information available from
local news
2
3
4.
Beccaynr (
talk) 05:14, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- None of those are "national" sources. The CBC's local news bureau in Nova Scotia does not reify into "national" coverage just because the URL happens to have the letters "CBC" in it — it's still coverage from a local affiliate, and not coverage from the national news division in Toronto. Same goes for Global Halifax and CTV Atlantic: that's local coverage, not "national" coverage, because it comes from the local affiliates and not the national news divisions. It's the same as in the United States: just because
KXAS-TV happens to be an NBC affiliate does not mean that its local news stories about local topics in Fort Worth automatically transform into "nationalized" coverage from
NBC News.
Bearcat (
talk) 05:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- Here is another feature article from a national source,
Cape Breton elects Amanda McDougall as its first female mayor (Canadian Press, 2020) and if the 'local' news is published on national websites, it may be a distinction without a difference. My point ultimately is that she appears to meet the guidelines for
WP:BASIC notability and
WP:NPOL as written, and the article can be expanded with the variety of sources posted in this discussion.
Beccaynr (
talk) 05:38, 6 July 2021 (UTC) Also, from my view, there are multiple independent and reliable sources that offer
WP:SECONDARY
analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas
, including but not limited to reporting about her being the first woman mayor, which requires a synthesis of facts related to the number of women previously elected to the post, and per policy,Wikipedia articles usually rely on material from reliable secondary sources
. Beccaynr ( talk) 13:58, 6 July 2021 (UTC)- No, local vs. national coverage is not a "distinction without a difference" in Canada just because the local news bureaux post their reportage to local sections of the parent corporation's website instead of each having their own standalone websites — the distinction between local vs. national coverage still works exactly the same way as it does in the United States, you just have to look in different places to determine which of those things any given piece of coverage is.
Bearcat (
talk) 17:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- I clearly have more to learn about news distribution in Canada, and I appreciate the clarification - in the US, local affiliates are often not so smoothly integrated with their national parent websites, and instead have their own websites, which makes it easier to identify and consider as more limited in scope. But, as noted above, she still has coverage in The Canadian Press, and my comments have been intended to highlight how her coverage is more than the more obviously local (at least to me) Cape Breton Post. Beccaynr ( talk) 17:55, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- No, local vs. national coverage is not a "distinction without a difference" in Canada just because the local news bureaux post their reportage to local sections of the parent corporation's website instead of each having their own standalone websites — the distinction between local vs. national coverage still works exactly the same way as it does in the United States, you just have to look in different places to determine which of those things any given piece of coverage is.
Bearcat (
talk) 17:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- Here is another feature article from a national source,
Cape Breton elects Amanda McDougall as its first female mayor (Canadian Press, 2020) and if the 'local' news is published on national websites, it may be a distinction without a difference. My point ultimately is that she appears to meet the guidelines for
WP:BASIC notability and
WP:NPOL as written, and the article can be expanded with the variety of sources posted in this discussion.
Beccaynr (
talk) 05:38, 6 July 2021 (UTC) Also, from my view, there are multiple independent and reliable sources that offer
WP:SECONDARY
- None of those are "national" sources. The CBC's local news bureau in Nova Scotia does not reify into "national" coverage just because the URL happens to have the letters "CBC" in it — it's still coverage from a local affiliate, and not coverage from the national news division in Toronto. Same goes for Global Halifax and CTV Atlantic: that's local coverage, not "national" coverage, because it comes from the local affiliates and not the national news divisions. It's the same as in the United States: just because
KXAS-TV happens to be an NBC affiliate does not mean that its local news stories about local topics in Fort Worth automatically transform into "nationalized" coverage from
NBC News.
Bearcat (
talk) 05:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- National news sources found it politically significant that she is the first woman elected mayor of the
Cape Breton Regional Municipality, that she began her term by bringing her child to work, and that she participated in
World Down Syndrome Day, so these sources appear to support
WP:BASIC, and the in-depth features focused on her appear to support
WP:NPOL, and can allow a more in-depth article to be developed. There is also more biographical information available from
local news
2
3
4.
Beccaynr (
talk) 05:14, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Campaign coverage and verification of election results doesn't cut it. We require coverage about the political impact of her mayoralty: specific things she did as mayor, specific projects she spearheaded, specific effects she had on the development of the city, and on and so forth — just sourcing that she ran and won, something which we can always do for every single mayor who ever mayored in every place that ever had mayors, is not in and of itself enough. We have to be able to write a substantive article about her political significance, not just a short blurb about her election results and a baby.
Bearcat (
talk) 03:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: there's significant coverage of specific things that make her notable beyond just being elected. For example: Global News on her being the first female mayor of Cape Breton, Global News on her work/life balance of being a mayor and a parent of a newborn, CTV News about Down's Syndrome advocacy. She's also been notable enough to appear in several different articles before being elected mayor - like the Cape Breton Spectator covering her 2016 run for city councillor, her questioning of the Port of Sydney Development Corporation, her call for a Nominee Program for immigrants, CBC News quoting her for Lifeline Syria, quoting her concerning the MV Miner wreck, covering a controversy involving her as a city councillor, about a committee appearance she was supposed to make in the federal House of Commons, Saltwire covering her Down's Syndrome advocacy, CTV News covering her and the port issue, etc... NHCLS ( talk) 12:35, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- "Quoted as giver of soundbite in news article about some other subject besides herself" is not support for notability. "The local newspaper covered her campaign for a local municipal council seat, in exactly the same equal-time way that it always covers every candidate in every municipal election in its coverage area" is not support for notability. "Speaking to a House of Commons committee" is not a notability claim per se, and neither is "was scheduled to speak to a House of Commons committee but got cancelled because of a filibuster". And on and so forth: we're looking for content about her political impact and her effect on the political, social and economic development of the city, not just "any news article whatsoever that can be found with her name in it".
Bearcat (
talk) 05:02, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- If you read the article about her filibustered committee appearance, it's specifically about a pilot program for Cape Breton which she was pushing for, the articles about the port issue were specifically about what she was doing to address the issue, the Down's syndrome articles are specifically about her advocacy and relation to it, etc... - those aren't just articles with her name in it, they're specific content about her political impact and her effect on the political, social and economic development of the city.
NHCLS (
talk) 13:00, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- Pushing for a project that hasn't been implemented is not a notable "effect on the political, social and economic development of the city", and advocating for an issue that has no municipal component for the CBRM to do anything about is not a meaningful "political impact". Bearcat ( talk) 17:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- If you read the article about her filibustered committee appearance, it's specifically about a pilot program for Cape Breton which she was pushing for, the articles about the port issue were specifically about what she was doing to address the issue, the Down's syndrome articles are specifically about her advocacy and relation to it, etc... - those aren't just articles with her name in it, they're specific content about her political impact and her effect on the political, social and economic development of the city.
NHCLS (
talk) 13:00, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- "Quoted as giver of soundbite in news article about some other subject besides herself" is not support for notability. "The local newspaper covered her campaign for a local municipal council seat, in exactly the same equal-time way that it always covers every candidate in every municipal election in its coverage area" is not support for notability. "Speaking to a House of Commons committee" is not a notability claim per se, and neither is "was scheduled to speak to a House of Commons committee but got cancelled because of a filibuster". And on and so forth: we're looking for content about her political impact and her effect on the political, social and economic development of the city, not just "any news article whatsoever that can be found with her name in it".
Bearcat (
talk) 05:02, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Per the very well reasoned presentation of the nominator. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 13:12, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwaiiplayer ( talk) 12:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwaiiplayer ( talk) 12:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep I'm convinced that there are enough sources, such as those presented above, to meet GNG. There is more than a typical soundbite or general election coverage, which generally is not counted for notability purposes. She is the mayor of a pretty significant place in Nova Scotia, and while this is not an automatic pass, it is an indication that it isn't like a town with 20,000 people. ~ EDDY ( talk/ contribs)~ 01:21, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep While I don't believe that the local cape breton spectator references do much for notability as it is pretty local, I do think that the other references barely meet GNG. Jackattack1597 ( talk) 10:36, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.