The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus is that
WP:MILUNIT #2 is met, and very importantly
WP:V is met. There is no "weak keep" close, so this will have to do.
78.26(
spin me /
revolutions) 14:35, 9 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete just nothing there in the way of coverage. I assume that it exists but without any coverage who knows?
Mztourist (
talk) 03:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
If the source cited regarding the commander mentions the 5th Nasr Division, merge - would be our first entry for an IGRC division. Otherwise delete.Buckshot06(talk) 09:12, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per
WP:MILUNIT #2. Certainly appears to exist. How can divisions not be notable? --
Necrothesp (
talk) 11:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Because the opening wording to MILUNIT states "presumption of notability for a military unit or formation depends wholly on the existence of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." and that is completely lacking here.
Mztourist (
talk) 03:39, 18 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I am aware, but I still can't believe that a division is not considered to be notable. Common sense issue.
WP:IAR and all that. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:46, 20 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Sourcing is what matters, nothing else.
Mztourist (
talk) 03:13, 21 March 2021 (UTC)reply
keep Sourcing is one part of the guideline for notability--and the entire notbility guidelien and all itssubrules is just a gudieline, and many attempts to make it policy have all failed. That means that the criteria in it are only guides to what is notable in the sense of being worth covering in the encyclopedia . (The actual policy is NOT INDISCRIMINATE). Coving mulitary units down to this level is far from. indiscriminate. So it meets the policy. For areas and aspects with difciult to find ocverage such as this, we can reasonable use a bvery broad interpretation of applicable guidelines. DGG (
talk ) 06:27, 21 March 2021 (UTC)reply
So are you saying that keeping a completely unsourced page is ok? We don't even know for sure that this unit isn't a hoax.
Mztourist (
talk) 08:59, 21 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:34, 23 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak DeleteWP:MILUNIT only says units of this size are likely, but not certain, to be suitable for inclusion based on the availability of reliable secondary sources. There's no guarantee about the size of the purported unit, either (just because it calls itself a division doesn't mean it has 20,000 personnel). I'd rather see more RS.
Intothatdarkness 21:32, 23 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Intothatdarkness - most of the sources are in Farsi, but I see a large number from what appear to be
WP:NEWSORGs.
1234. Using machine translation it is clear that the unit existed, that it had battalions and brigades beneath it, that it was commanded by officers of Brigadier rank or above, and that it suffered significant casualties in the Iran-Iraq war. PS- for the avoidance of doubt, even if we discount
WP:MILUNIT as a (highly useful) essay, the sources presented also make this a basic
WP:GNG pass as they constitute multiple instances of
WP:SIGCOV in
WP:NEWSORG sources.
FOARP (
talk) 15:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:10, 31 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak keep on the basis that there is some coverage in sources. The idea being spouted above that we don't need sources to demonstrate notability is utterly stupid. -
Indy beetle (
talk) 04:32, 1 April 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.