From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Modussiccandi ( talk) 07:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC) reply

2019–2021 Persian Gulf crisis

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

2019–2021 Persian Gulf crisis (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This article has a number of problems and should be deleted. It is a violation of our policies on WP:OR. The article's existence takes many separate incidents, almost all of which already have independent Wikipedia pages, and amalgamates them into one big crisis that doesn't seem to exist in reliable sources. This is a type of synthesis/original research. I do not see support in reliable sources for the idea that all of these incidents are part of a single, sustained, 2-3 year crisis that is separable from Iran–United States relations.

The article was originally split off from Iran–United States relations due to size, but it has just become a dumping ground for every little thing that happens in the Gulf or between the US and Iran, violating our WP:NOTNEWS policy as well. It is a perfect example of a WP:COATRACK. The article's content is already adequately covered at the many linked articles on specific incidents ( May 2019 Gulf of Oman incident, June 2019 Gulf of Oman incident, 2019 Iranian shoot-down of American drone, 2019 K-1 Air Base attack, Attack on the United States embassy in Baghdad, Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, July 2021 Gulf of Oman incident, Assassination of Qasem Soleimani and numerous others). The article's content is also covered at Iran–United States relations, Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict, Iran–Israel proxy conflict, Iranian intervention in Iraq (2014–present), Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists, and several others. This article's existence is redundant. Its content is either better covered elsewhere or too trivial for inclusion at all.

The article also adds to confusion by being titled 2019-2021 but stating that the crisis is "ongoing" in the lead sentence while also covering events in 2022. Finally, WP:TNT applies; there are significant WP:PROSELINE issues.

Apologies for the long nomination statement - this is a complex case. I previously brought up the issue on the WP:NORN noticeboard, which I linked on the article's talk page with a ping to major contributors, but received little response. —Ganesha811 ( talk) 16:05, 6 September 2022 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Searching for "persian gulf crisis -wikipedia" in Google, with results limited to those published on or after 1/1/2021, gives a bunch of hits ( [1], [2], [3]), but these all appear to be discussing the conflict (or whatever noun should be use here) between Qatar and it's neighbors, including Saudi Arabia. What I'm not seeing is evidence that all these events discussed in the article are being treated as a single coherent "crisis" in reliable sources. Skimming thru (all I have time for now; hence just a "comment" at this point), I get a feeling that the article is at the minimum in need of massive trimming and an overhaul, as well as likely a renaming to something else. - Ljleppan ( talk) 09:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC) reply
    Delete as a case of WP:TNT. There might be an article to be rescued somewhere inside there (perhaps as something like US-Iran crisis (2019-20??)), but there's just so much prose (88597 characters, according to DYK Check, with 320k bytes of wikisource) that cutting all this down into something even vaguely in WP:SUMMARYSTYLE seems too much to ask from anyone. If someone came forth and volunteered to do the legwork, I'd have no objection to giving them the chance to. But as it now stands, I think, I'd imagine the sheer scale of the article will put off anyone from doing even the most minor changes. - Ljleppan ( talk) 08:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as WP:SYNTH. Even given Ljleppan's considerations, WP:TNT would be warranted. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 04:03, 10 September 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and clean up There was indeed a recognized period of heightened military tensions ("crisis") in the Persian Gulf region between the Trump Administration and the Iranian government between 2019 and 2021 as detailed and documented in the article, supported by numerous linked RS. The crisis specifically prompted the creation of the International Maritime Security Construct military consortium that is still active today. However, the crisis died down by the end of 2021 and, instead of just wiping away all of that information overnight, editors should declare the crisis over during the onset of the Biden administration to prevent WP:SYNTH. Or, alternatively, follow-up on Ljleppan's considerations. RopeTricks ( talk) 04:12, 11 September 2022 (UTC) reply
    Which sources in particular refer to a sustained 2019-2021 crisis that is separable from Iran-United States relations? There are a lot of sources in the article, so it's possible I missed it, but none of the references I checked supported the idea of treating all these separate events as a single crisis which has now ended. —Ganesha811 ( talk) 15:53, 12 September 2022 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:51, 14 September 2022 (UTC) reply

  • Delete as WP:synth. Fad Ariff ( talk) 11:59, 14 September 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Per nom and my previous comment at OR noticeboard. -- Mhhossein talk 03:05, 17 September 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and clean up. The 2019-2021 Gulf crisis is real and well documented. The response that RopeTricks received, after he raised this, is that the end date of the crisis is unknown. While this is correct per se, it doesn't really matter. It is very difficult to write recent history and the next serious flare may convince some that this subdued crisis is ongoing. THE POINT is that such a recent end date, if at all, does not matter for keeping or deleting. Different points of view can be portrayed until a broader consensus is reached. It does not make the crisis unreal. gidonb ( talk) 19:35, 17 September 2022 (UTC) reply
The sources used in the paper are mostly OR. Actually "a source "directly supports" a given piece of material if the information is present explicitly in the source,"( WP:VERIFY). This is while the sources are used mainly based on the feelings and judgements of the users who thought the content were relevant to the topic, without paying attention to fact that the sources should explicitly talk about Persian Gulf Crisis. -- Mhhossein talk 04:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC) reply
Can you point me to this paper that uses mostly OR sources? Also, please explain: why would the sources of a single reference terribly matter? Finally, in which way is yours not an WP:IDONTLIKEIT argument, like all other delete arguments here? gidonb ( talk) 23:49, 19 September 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. The number of sources verifying individual pieces of content does not matter; we need sources discussing the topic-as-a-whole, and I'm not seeing those. Vanamonde ( Talk) 18:36, 21 September 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This is an obvious case of WP:OR. KSAWikipedian ( talk) 19:08, 21 September 2022 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2019–2021_Persian_Gulf_crisis&oldid=1121309963"