This is an archive of past Clarification and Amendment requests. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to file a new clarification or amendment request, you should follow the instructions at the top of this page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | → | Archive 25 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In that case, the ArbCom took the line that userspace is not to be used to keep "laundry lists of grudges". This was in a remedy, rather than explicitly given as a principle. The general question of what can and cannot be placed in userspace is addressed also by WP:NOT, and in the end comes down to whether given postings help the mission. Combining the explicit principles in that case, with the thought in the remedy, and policy, gives some relevant concepts on the acceptable use of userspace. The following represents our current interpretation.
Certain kinds of uses are impermissible. These include but are not limited to:
Certain kinds of uses are permissible:
Procedural objection: the case is over a year old, and AGK's proposal could be made policy through the normal procedure of simply editing WP:USER, the official content guideline for such things, or by discussing it on the talk page of same. There is no reason for the Arbcom to get involved, the connection to the case is at best highly tangental, and the Arbcom really shouldn't be in the habit of revisiting old cases simply to make a non-urgent policy rewrite.
Obviously, AGK's good faith is not in question - he was probably simply unaware of WP:USER. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 03:41, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I would like to bring up some issues here. I have no intention of blowing this out of proportions but I had some concerns when reading this request for clarification.
I would be very glad if all of these questions could cleared up for me.
Seddσn talk Editor Review 00:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Had this been an ordinary request for clarification, I don't think there'd have been a problem here. Turning it into a motion that's explicitly stuck back into the main case page is one though - I'm surprised that the 3 of you have abstained to reduce the majority, rather than procedurally opposed given the legitimate concerns here. This motion gives all appearances that ArbCom are becoming legislative.
That said, I don't think anyone strongly disagrees with the proposals itself; rather, it's the manner in which its done. Why the reluctance to put it into policy? Its inclusion doesn't need to be limited to any one content guideline/policy (such as USER); the relevant parts can be put into relevant guidelines/policies (whether its HARASS or NOT or whatever else). WP:NLT was amended just before the Haines case closed so I don't see why this should be any different just because it would involve more than one page. Additionally, the proposals aren't remarkably 'new' - the community have come across these particular scenarios in the recent past and used common sense along with policy, rather than relying on any cases. So amending "case law" as opposed to "legislation" is questionable & unnecessary as far as this issue is concerned - I don't think we have, or ever will look to "case law" to handle what is specified in these proposals.
This should not be a motion to amend a previous case. If the Committee wants to give guidance (on request), it shouldn't be any more than a request for clarification that gets archived on the talk page of the case. Ncmvocalist ( talk) 02:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
The Arbcom are entitled to vote for this resolution if they want to.
They may also vote on a resolution of if the moon is made of cheese.
Neither of the votes can have any effect.
The Arbitration Policy is clear on this, ArbCom have no ability to create new policy by fiat, no matter if they can tangentially link it to a case.
Charles, I think this borders on an abuse of your station as Arbitrator to push for policy changes you want, and you should probably withdraw it and use the normal process of changing policy by consensus. What you ask for isn't greatly objectionable, but this is not the way to do it.-- Barberio ( talk) 15:53, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
A recent case where the motion offered would have an impact can be found here. I'm sure that Charles Matthews left it out because the principle has wider application and might not fit perfectly with this particular incident. Avruch T 03:51, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I stumble over this: "Lists of grudges, problem users, diffs, just to make a point." (my emphasis).
There's a bizarre tendency in Wikipedia-internal jargon, inspired no doubt by that infamous essay, to treat the expression "to make a point" as if it denoted something bad. Worse, it appears that many people use the phrase "you are just making a point!" to mean: "you are saying something I don't like". Let me point out that to make points is the whole point of – well, of what? Language. Communicating. Why on earth would anybody ever write down anything if not in order to get his point across? My point being, please point out more precisely what you mean at that point. Thank you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
The second motion specifies what can be kept for the purpose of "dispute resolution". What about keeping lists of diffs or notes about other editors (possibly of a derogatory nature) for elections, such as WP:ACE2008, WP:RFB and WP:RFA? I think it would be good for clarity to explicitly add or exclude such uses. Jehochman Talk 05:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Committee members, you should be proposing this on the guideline talk page in your normal role as editors. When and if the community tries and fails to resolve such matters and all normal means have been exhausted, then an arbitration motion along these lines might become credible. No evidence has been put forward that normal means have been tried and the initiating motion specifically expresses a desire to get ahead of events. Proactive changes are the community's responsibility. As a body you are the last step in dispute resolution. Both the original motion and the alternate are profoundly out of order. Durova Charge! 15:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Look, I don't want to be difficult about this, but in the WP:ARBCOMRFC and subsequent discussion, the Arbcom's creation of policy was criticised very strongly. This motion does not do the Arbcom any credit, in either form, as it's something that could easily be done as users, and does not need Arbcom to create new policy. Putting it in terms of "You will not be prosecuted if..." doesn't really help matters, nor does discussing shoehorning it into a new case. If a non-arbitrator had suggested it, it would be one thing. But as it is, I suspect this is going to blow up in your face, even though the suggestions are pretty good: They bypass the community, and the community's ability to discuss them or tweak them, and thus give the appearance of arrogance. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 13:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
There are two issues here. The general principle that user space is for matters that benefit the project, and remains communally owned and subject to community feelings. If used to hold contentious "blame lists" these need to be well justified in line with the traditional principle that once something's over, it's history. If there is contentious problematic material then ultimately it is a wiki page, not MySpace. This is a principle covered in Wikipedia:User pages, and which we referred to and affirmed in our decision " RFAR/Tobias Conradi". But that was all we did. We did not create policy, not change it, we affirmed what was already well established as being written within existing norms.
Administrators may need assurance that they will not be treated as misusing administrative tools, if they were stricter on deleting or blanking such content that appears to be problematic in user space. That's fair to raise, since ultimately if there were a question, we would be asked to rule on it. I'd feel comfortable saying how I see the aim of that guideline, and how I'd handle such content, and to give assurance/guidance that some kinds of action will not usually be seen as a problem by us, as measured against norms of the community. Those are well within our usual remit. I would not however require Arbcom to write policy or guidelines in doing so. FT2 ( Talk | email) 07:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
(Motion as above)
2) The Committee affirms and clarifies the principle that was stated as a remedy in the Tobias Conradi case:
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Franco-Mongol alliance arbitration case ( t) ( ev / t) ( w / t) ( pd / t)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Dear all. During the nearly 9 months since the March 2008 Arbcom ruling concerning my case ( User:PHG/ Franco-Mongol alliance), various important new facts have come to light, which I believe warrant a review of my case and an official rehabilitation of my contribution to Wikipedia. These new facts relate to the revelation that 1) the secret “Independent verification” decisively used by Arbcom in its ruling against me relies on essentially improper evidence 2) I have continued contributing a very large amount of high-quality material to Wikipedia, continuously displaying high editorial standards 3) I believe the case against me had been improperly orchestrated over a period of several months by a user ( User:Elonka), who, I am sorry to say, has since shown to be an extremely controversial editor.
Although I was able through the Arbitration Worshops to properly respond to all accusations made against me (See: Response to Elonka, Response to Shell Kinney etc…) the Arbcom decisively relied for its final ruling on an alleged “Independent verification” of the sources by User:Sam Blacketer acting as scrivener, which only recently finally came to light ( See: Report on use of sources by Sam Blacketer). Despite the fact that this reports had been hidden for months, something I believe quite improper in terms of procedure, the reading of it reveals that it is based on either gross misunderstanding of the source material (such as Sam Blacketer, whom I otherwise respect, making a case against me based on his confusion of the French noun "pendant" (=counterpart) with the preposition "pendant" (=meanwhile), or even errors in English vocabulary, claiming that "timing an offensive to coincide with another" would actually mean that these offensives are "coincidental"), or misrepresentation of my contributions, putting into my mouth things I never said or wrote ( See: Response by PHG). I strongly dispute any ruling that relies on such inexact analysis of the facts. It is beyond me what the motives of Sam Blacketer would be, except for the fact that he seems to be very close to Elonka, since he privately counselled her during the request for the recall of her Adminship [17]. At the very least, it is a case of some basic misunderstanding of the facts and sources, and it seems quite worrying that an Arbcom ruling could be passed on such wrong premises. All my contributions have always been done in good faith, as recognized by the Arbcom [18], all my references have always shown to be exact and existing ( See introductory statement by Sam Blacketer), and beyond the possibility of variations and accidents in the interpretation of the sources by any individual, I do not believe that anything like voluntary misrepresentation of sources on my part has ever been shown.
Secondly, I believe it has become obvious that my contributions are continuously of the highest quality: I have continued making important contributions to Wikipedia, continuously showing great respect for editorial rules. I believe my contributions during these 9 months amply show in a variety of subjects the nature of my editing: detailed contributions on little known subjects of cultural interaction. In spite of what I tend to think are faulty procedures and unfair characterizations, I have managed to overcome my disappointment, and endeavoured to keep providing high quality content to Wikipedia, in the areas I like most: little-known instances of cultural interaction through the ages. I believe my contributions have continuously been some of the best Wikipedia has to offer. I am particularly proud of some of the articles I created or expanded since March 2008, date of this Arbcom ruling:
MY ARTICLE CREATIONS since March 2008:
Wooden cannon
Johann Caspar Horner
Yanmar 2GM20
Torpedo boat tender
Jean-Samuel Pauly
Arcadio Huang
Michael Shen Fu-Tsung
Philippe Couplet
Ok-khun Chamnan
Kosa Pan
France-Thailand relations
Siamese revolution (1688)
Maria Guyomar de Pinha
Sangley rebellion
Battle of Zhenhai
Siamese method
Siege of Bangkok
Shanhai Yudi Quantu
Wanguo Quantu
Cheonhado
Template:Foreign relations of Thailand
Phan Thanh Gian
Nguyen Phuc Canh
Capture of Saigon
Template:French Indochina
Tonkin campaign
Template:Sino-French war
Le Van Khoi revolt
Le Van Khoi
Dictionarium Annamiticum Lusitanum et Latinum
Yangwu
France-Japan relations (19th century)
François de Casembroot
Tokugawa Akitake
Edward St. John Neale
Ansei Treaties
Treaty of Amity and Commerce between France and Japan
Murayama Tōan
Japan-Thailand relations
Guillaume Courtet
Gustave Duchesne de Bellecourt
Siméon Bourgeois
Battle of Palikao
Jean-Baptiste Cécille
Guy Tachard
Simon de la Loubère
General Desfarges
Charles Rigault de Genouilly
René Charbonneau
Pierre d'Espagnac
Chevalier de Beauregard
Claude Céberet du Boullay
Louis Laneau
Jean Antoine Théodore de Gudin
Henri Nicol
Charles de Montigny
Sieur de Bruno
Chevalier Milard
M. Feraud
France-Burma relations
France-Vietnam relations
French assistance to Nguyen Anh
Jean-Baptiste Chaigneau
Prosper de Chasseloup-Laubat
Treaty of Versailles (1788)
Charles Louis de Fredy de Coubertin
Olivier de Puymanel
François Pallu
Pierre Lambert de la Motte
Ignace Cotolendi
Compagnie de Chine
Joseph Marchand
Jacques Vigouroux Duplessis
Maupérin
Michel-Étienne Turgot
Artus de Lionne
François-Isidore Gagelin
Jean-Charles Cornay
Jean-Marie Dayot
Philippe Vannier
French frigate Némésis (1847)
Hyacinthe de Bougainville
Jean-Louis Taberd
Charles Ragon de Bange
Léonard Charner
Dominique Lefèbvre
Charles Kuwasseg
Jacques Duchesne
Pierre Henri Dorié
De Bange 90mm cannon
Lahitolle 95mm cannon
Jean-Baptiste Verchère de Reffye
Reffye cannon
Montigny mitrailleuse
Joseph Montigny
Claude Etienne Minié
Template:Groundbreaking French weapons of the 19th century
François Prélat
Casimir Lefaucheux
Hippolyte Marié-Davy
Antoine Treuille de Beaulieu
Canon-obusier
Canon-obusier de 12
Valée system
Jean Maritz
Canon de 12 Gribeauval
Florent-Jean de Vallière
Jean-Ernest Ducos de La Hitte
La Hitte system
Year XI system
Nec pluribus impar
Jean-Jacques Keller
French weapons in the American Civil War
Tamisier
OTHER MAJOR CONTRIBUTIONS since March 2008:
Paris Foreign Missions Society
Sino-French War
Mitrailleuse
I have also contributed hundreds of high-quality images on Commons [19], on a total of about 3,000 I have uploaded so far (most of them photographs taken by me in museums around the world: See: My photographs)
Lastly, I believe the case against me had been orchestrated over a period of several months by a user ( User:Elonka) who has since proven to be a very controversial contributor, eventually even refusing to honour a pledge for recall she had made to the community. I do not wish to attack Elonka, whose contributions are not always negative, but I only wish to show the lengths to which she went in attacking me and in trying to misrepresent and discredit my contributions. Further, I challenge the fairness of proceedings of which the main accuser has now revealed herself an extremely controversial editor.
Even before the ruling, I believe I had shown that all of Elonka’s accusations against me were inexact ( See: Response to Elonka). The nature of her actions have become ever more noticeable to the community as a whole, prompting a massive movement for the recall of her Administrator status Elonka recall. Finally, she refused to honour her recall pledge, just as she had refused to honour our mediation agreement (to describe the Franco-Mongol alliance as “an alliance, or at least an attempt to an alliance”). This strongly suggests that the actions of Elonka against any user, past and present, should be looked upon with suspicion.
As a matter of fact, between August 2007 to June 2008, I was hurled accusations after accusations almost daily, simply because I would not comply with her own version of the
Franco-Mongol alliance (an article I created). She knew very little about the subject, but nonetheless became very aggresive, a pattern which has been repeating itself since then in disputes with other users. Basically, I had been trying to gather as many facts and references as possible on the subject (as many as 400 references at the highest point
[20]), whether she insisted on a one-sided short version only describing “attempts towards an alliance”, destroying about 300 proper references in the process (
[21]). To gather support for her cause, Elonka relied on on-wiki and off-Wiki canvassing of uninvolved users, a few cases of which randomly came to light (
Adam Bishop
Folantin
Latebird
Haukurth
Paul Pieniezny), probably only showing the tip of the iceberg: I believe Elonka resorts to extensive off-Wiki canvassing in her disputes, freely misrepresenting her opponents, and that the same group of supporters propping up in every dispute is suggestive of tag-teaming. She makes unfair attacks on opponents through off-Wiki e-mail, a fact that occasionally surfaces (See:
User: Mathsci), and something which I suspect she has done extensively in my case. Since the ruling, Elonka’s supporters have been practicing editorial cleansing, for example suppressing perfectly historical mentions of the relations between Europeans and the Mongols, such as
Edward I (
[22]
[23])
Philippe le Bel (
[24]) or Elonka herself deleting proper referenced information in
Jacques de Molay (
[25]) or the
House of Lusignan (
[26]). This is in itself a negation of historical knowledge, in denial of Wikipedia's ideal to be "The source of all knowledge". Following the ruling, Elonka tried to further pursue me by misrepresenting my contributions, such as when I created the article
France-Japan relations (19th century): she abusively portrayed it as being “related to medieval history” in order to have me blocked (which an unsuspecting Administrator did), although I was properly abiding to my restrictions
[27]. In Mongol-related articles, she has kept making non-referenced assertions, and removed the « Reference needed » tags inserted by others
[28] to favour her own version of things, in total disregard of the most basic editorial rules.
I thus request that this ruling be overturned, for the multiple reasons that the “Independent verification” the Arbcom has decisively relied on appears to have been quite improper, that I have continuously proven the quality of my work with great editorial contributions and quality and utmost respect for Wikipedia editorial rules, and that my main accuser has proven to be highly controversial and untrustworthy, and has resorted to unfair methods in trying to discredit me. I love the Wikipedia project, and wish that the fairness and quality of the Arbitration Committee can be demonstrated by its ability to correct the harm and injustice that has been done to me. Best regards to all. PHG ( talk) 16:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I am not aware of PHG ever accepting responsibility for the problems that they have caused. Instead, they have resolutely maintained that they never did anything wrong, and where I have spot checked, they appear to have continued the same pattern of editing that tends to biase Wikipedia articles toward their own world view, at the expense of neutral point of view, verified by reliable sources. I oppose removing sanctions, or allowing sanctions to lapse. We are here to write an encyclopedia, not to publish original research or ahistorical fringe theories.
The appeal above consists of intense wikilawyering and attempts to divert attention from the real issue. It should be rejected, and the Committee should consider whether to stengthen or extend the existing sanctions. Please look at PHG's contributions since the sanctions were implemented and see if they follow Wikipedia's content policies and guidelines, or not. A valid appeal, in my view, would list the prior problems, state what has been done to correct them, and ask for sanctions to be lifted. Seeking to blame others is a non-starter in my opinion.
If PHG has made improvements since the last time I checked, which hopefully might be the case, it would be best for their mentor to make a statement saying so. I think any appeal filed would be more convincing if the mentor confirmed it. Jehochman Talk 16:09, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
PHG is a very hardworking editor whose realms of interest are scholarly and encyclopedic. He deserves our collective thanks for his dedication. That thanks, though, must be shared with weighty concerns. If only he adjusted to feedback, neither the arbitration nor his restriction would have become necessary. He continues to assert that the case against him had its origins in conspiracy and vendetta. These claims, to the best of my knowledge, are untrue. I uncovered dozens of invalid copyright claims in his Commons uploads--all encyclopedic material that could have been transwikied with nonfree image use rationales--yet he preferred to speculate that I was either incompetent or Elonka's puppet and after weeks of discussion those images were deleted.
Elonka doesn't pull my strings; I supported the recall request on her. But that is unrelated to this matter and as far as I know she has been correct here. These unsubstantiated allegations of corruption have continued long enough. In the heat of an arbitration case such statements might be forgiven, but the better part of a year has passed and this is not PHG's first appeal. His accusations amount to a long term campaign of personal attacks which seeks to undermine the clout of several hardworking people. This is unacceptable behavior. If it continues additional sanctions may become necessary. Durova Charge! 16:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately, this is simply a rehash of the numerous other statements PHG has mode about this case. He apparently still feels everyone but himself was either incorrect, incompetent or acting in bad-faith. There are a lot of editors who believe he makes excellent contributions, and that can only improve if he can learn to accept and respond to feedback. Since he so strongly feels that his actions in regards to this subject were appropriate, I see no way to remove the restrictions at this time. I would also recommend that the Committee consider reminding PHG that continuing these false claims and attacks on other editors is frowned upon. Shell babelfish 17:58, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I've always found PHG an extremely valuable and hardworking editor whose work to me has always appeared scholarly and encyclopedic. Editors who contribute content that he does should be warmly accepted not driven away. He undoubtedly deserves respect for his dedication to wikipedia. However the claims of original research and possible image copyrights do need questioning but I am certain that the claims are not as far reaching as is claimed. I am convinced that this in no way outweighs the overwhelming positive he has contributed to project and am also sure that he would make fully certain that he accepts any possible error he made and not to do it again, and is given a second chance. Please don't let us lose another valuable editor. Bascially PHG please don't use original research or violate copyright, keep to the rules and writing the best encyclopedia articles you can and try to listen to the views of others even if you think they are talking rubbish. Reply "OK". End of problem. Everybody deserves to contribute to wikipedia and a second chance, particularly editors of his calibre. Can you please make an effort to sort it out with Elonka and continue editing as before without the problems. I think the situation was and has been blown out of hand in all honesty. Best of luck editing. Count Blofeld 18:23, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
PHG has asked me to comment here. During a previous appeal, I noted that Siege of Bangkok relied on 3 primary sources, namely three contemporary accounts of people involved in the events. This still seems to be the case. I randomly sampled Hyacinthe de Bougainville written just over a month ago: most facts about his life before 40, mentioned on the corresponding French WP page, do not appear. The articles are quite different. It would surely have been possible to have used the detailed published biographical notes on Bougainville's life from [32] or articles from dictionaries of French biography. PHG's account seems a bit quirky and anecdotal: the 1824 mission was primarily a political, diplomatic and commercial venture; this is not made clear in his article which seems to blow minor details a little out of proportion. Anyway, this was just one sample where better and more detailed sources could have been used. That's my 2 centimes worth. Mathsci ( talk) 19:52, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I have only been looking at PHG's contributions to the French colonial era in Vietnam and I think his edits are constructive and within policy in that topic. Obviously I have edited some of these articles as well.
I have no concerns about the work PHG has done since the last visit here. I don't see Mathsci's comments as regards Bougainville fils as being entirely fair. It's a start, it doesn't contain any obvious disinformation, and it can be improved upon. That's how we work.
As the remedies which PHG asks to have reviewed, I believe that this is worth the committee's consideration. I would be concerned at the lifting of all restrictions given the problems that exist between PHG and those other editors interested in the intersection between Mongols and Crusaders. But perhaps the topic ban might be narrowed somewhat?
I hope that PHG will rethink his attitude towards Elonka et al. Even if he cannot change his opinion, he must change his behaviour. But I do not believe the time is ripe for the committee to intervene in this dispute as the community has ample other tools at its disposal. Angus McLellan (Talk) 02:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
PHG ( talk · contribs) does a lot of good work for the project, but when it comes to the topic area of medieval history, I am concerned that PHG still does not seem to understand or even acknowledge the reasons for his topic ban. To continue to protect the project, I feel that it is best if the ban remain in place, and it may even be worth considering an extension, since the original ban will be expiring in a few months. I have reviewed PHG's statement above, and see that many of the diffs he is providing are repeats from the Franco-Mongol alliance case. He is continuing to re-hash things that were said several months ago, going back all the way to 2007. By the way, as a progress report on article cleanup since the case, I am sorry to report that though we have worked through dozens of articles so far, we are still working on cleanup, working through the articles that were affected by PHG's POV-pushing, but we still have several more yet to go. There have also been recent comments of concern, as while we've been working on cleanup, PHG has been arguing at some talkpages with the same demeanor that led to the ArbCom case in the first place. To be clear, he is not violating his ban, since he is still allowed to post at talkpages. But as recently as this week, he continues to accuse others of improper deletions, continues to insist that we should give undue weight to an alleged alliance between the Europeans and the Mongols, and continues to insist that quotes from primary source documents, such as medieval correspondence, be returned to the articles. See his comments at Talk:Jacques de Molay [33] and Talk:Guy of Ibelin (died 1304). [34] It is frustrating to me to see PHG react in this way, because he does such an enormous amount of useful work in other project areas. However, with regret, I think it is best that PHG's topic ban remain in place. -- El on ka 02:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I think the ArbCom ought to take a second look at this, because I believe PHG's topic ban ought to be extended to indefinite. PHG clearly has no intention of ever examining his editing behavior to see if any element is problematic, and thus I believe he should be prevented from inserting his idiosyncratic original research into Wikipedia articles. If the project's goal is to create a useful reference work (rather than a social club), editors such as PHG--who are well-meaning, but in the dark about research methods--need to be recognized as a serious danger. --Akhilleus ( talk) 05:47, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't follow what PHG does outside of medieval history topics; but he certainly never gave me any reason to believe his own advertising on the medieval articles. Sometimes I wonder whether he is even a real person or just a bot repeating the same statements over and over again - he contributes quality articles, fully sourced with the best references, etc etc, and that was always demonstrably false with the medieval topics. He never seemed to understand our objections, never understood that we were trying to help, and apparently believed that editing "his" articles meant that we were destroying his work. He frequently referred to Wikipedia policies that had nothing to do with the situation, as if random guidelines were universal laws designed specifically to protect him. My only recent interaction with him, a couple of weeks ago, was essentially exactly the same as it was a year ago, so he does not seem to have changed. (I expect he will now copy-and-paste a response detailing just how excellent an editor he really is, but every time he does that I am less and less inclined to believe him.) Adam Bishop ( talk) 05:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello All. I am here at the gracious invitation of PHG and I am glad to provide my take regarding PHG. I have met PHG on and off over the past year or so and I have cooperated with him on a few of his articles. I have also succesfully nominated some of his articles for DYK. I find PHG to be a very capable, intelligent and friendly editor, an asset to Wikpedia and a precious resource who, in my opinion, enhances diversity and inclusiveness in the project. I also find many of his articles fascinating, the topics eclectic and his writing excellent. I understand that he has been placed under editing restrictions, (due to past conflicts on older articles on which I am not taking a position because I am not familiar with either the topic or the issues involved and in any case I would not second-guess any decisions made), which he now appeals. I have advised PHG on his talk page to refactor the comments of his appeal to the Arbcom because I find that he does not need to divert attention from his excellent record under probation by referring to his disputes with other editors. Under the sanctions imposed by the committee his behaviour has been exemplary, his cooperation with his mentor has proceeded without problems and his adherence to Wikipedia policies has been very good. This progress alone warrants the lifting of the sanctions for the symbolic remainder of three months. The remaining period is so short it is obviously symbolic and not really substantive. So what we are really arguing here is if we are ready to return an unburdened PHG back on Wikipedia. To answer this question we have to ask ourselves if PHG's future contribution to the project will be positive and if PHG has succesfully fulfilled his probation and mentorship requirements.I think that the answers to both questions, given his record under probation, have to be positive. The only thing I would like PHG to do is to refactor his comments to eliminate any reference to a dispute with other editors. This dispute only clouds his otherwise strong case for lifting the largely symbolic three months of remaining sanctions against him. Dr.K. ( talk) 08:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I have been notified about this request by PHG.
If the subject is to end the restrictions imposed on PHG earlier, since he has followed the rules, did not seem to contribute to any disputes with negative results and since he has positively contributed, my answer is yes, end the ban now.
My recommendation to PHG for now and for the future is to continue the good work and to passionately fight for what he thinks is right ... BUT ... if after sometime there is still strong resistance... to stop fighting in that field. Yield. Sometimes there might be a good reason behind it. Some other times not, but in both cases, stop fighting there and pick another issue. This is my suggestion which I also gave in his talk page.-- FocalPoint ( talk) 10:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
The track record of PHG at Commons (he contributes as PHGCOM ( talk • contribs)) ought to be considered germane to any evaluation of his current enwiki restrictions. Durova, a Commons administrator and mightily experienced contributor, has compiled a critical analysis of it at User:Durova/Problems with PHGCOM uploads at Wikimedia Commons. That report details extended analysis of PHG's uploads to Commons. Whilst the majority of his uploads—they number hundreds—are soundly sourced and high in quality, a small proportion of them feature deliberately sparse copyright information. (Again, see Durova's report for substantiation of that claim.)
In some cases, it appears, PHG has deliberately opted to deviate from his usual habit of liberally providing copyright information and instead omitted certain data in order to skirt copyright restrictions. For example in one upload he claimed a photograph was taken in a period "circa 1885"; it was later discovered that the photo could in fact have been taken as late as World War I. (Meaning? PHG has deliberately bended the copyright policy. More on that below.)
An analysis of PHG's contributions on Commons shows him to be an excellent contributor the majority of the time. It also highlights his willingness to bend copyright policy when it suits. With respect for PHG, I am unsure such an individual is one we should be lifting enwiki restrictions from without very sound assurances that the behaviour he has practised, and is practising, on another project whilst restricted here would not continue should the en:wiki restrictions be lifted.
AGK 21:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Had to spend some time going over this. Uninvolved (as far as I can remember), but seriously please do not unleash this guy onto medieval history articles again. The bad user/good user ratio is already demoralizingly appalling. And poor Elonka! She put so much effort into sorting this guy and she now has to go through it again because this guy (what a surprise!) thinks he has grounds for appeal. Seriously, everyone is a volunteer here, and she, in addition to taking all the libel, can't be expected to go through this every few months just because she was among the first and most vigilant people to deal with this user! That we still have a ridiculous article/SYTH-fest at Franco-Mongol alliance shows me that more work to undo this guy's destructive impact on our respectability is a bigger priority than wasting everyone's time judging if the decision reached a few months back was the right one. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 08:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I would just like to say that I have co-operated with PHG on the Indo-Greek and related pages for years, and that our discussions has always been highly matter of fact and unprestigious. PHG usually accepted my contributions if they were based on reputable sources and frequently gave good advice. There was a major row about the Indo-Greek maps, and in this dispute PHG was the subject of much abuse, usually keeping a far more civil tone himself as can be seen on the Indo-Greek talk page. Several of the opponents were not read up on recent research; I fear I must suspect personal and/or nationalistic reasons for some of their disagreements. Sock-puppetting also appeared. I have less knowledge about the Franco-Mongol alliance dispute, but from what I have seen I support PHG's appeal. Sponsianus ( talk) 11:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is a request to clarify the status of Finding of Fact #5. Proposed finding #5, SlimVirgin's conduct received a final vote tally of 5 in favor, 3 opposed and one abstention. WIth 11 active arbitrators on the case, the abstention reduced the number of active arbitrators on that proposal to 10; however with 10 the required majority is still 6. The finding is recording as having passed 5-3 with one abstention.
This finding has been cited recently against SlimVirgin in another matter. I believe this was an honest mistake or confusion but the finding needs to be vacated or revoted.
Note: This matter was recently posted to Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration but the discussion was sidetracked by ElinorD's objections to the case in general and the subsequent discussion. I respectfully ask that ElinorD and other interested editors to allow this clarification to stay focused on the single issue presented at this time. Thatcher 12:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Speaking on something of an official note here (or wearing my Clerk hat, at least).
There has been a clear metric miscalculation on the finding in question. With the thinking being that particular aspect of the SlimVirgin-Lar decision was at no point assented to by the Committee (as per this tally), I have run with Brad's suggestion (below) and deleted the finding from the final decision.
I have engaged in some light publicity of this adjustment — in the vein that notifications of general case closures are made in — at Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration. (I am willing to post notifications at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard or at similar pages upon request.)
AGK 21:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Jack Merridew has asked the Arbitration Committee to review and lift his ban. ( arbcom clarification, User:Jack Merridew, SSP case, RFCU case, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive136#Community sanction or ban for Jack Merridew, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive142#Jack Merridew).
I note Condition #8, in particular "Should Jack Merridew violate the restrictions imposed upon him in this decision, he may be blocked for one year by any uninvolved administrator" (emphasis mine). Am I correct in interpreting that any deviation from the remainder of the editing condition will result in a one-year block? Risker ( talk) 02:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Note - refers to Condition #8 in Motion #1, as it was initially proposed by FloNight.
I am concerned at the timing of the proposed return of Jack Merridew - with whom I have previously had some convivial interactions - given that White Cat is a candidate on the 2008 ArbCom elections. I would seek reassurance that the conditions of the return of Jack Merridew includes a constraint upon him not participating in the aforementioned Election in any capacity; his voting for and advocating for candidates other than White Cat possibly being construed as acting against that party. I would point out that if Jack Merridew were not permitted to regain their editing privileges then they would not be permitted to participate in the election, and that under the circumstances being prevented in doing so while editing under restrictions is not as prohibitive as might at first appear. I regard this as a necessary extension of the restriction that Jack Merridew should not interact with White Cat, as proposed by FloNight. LessHeard vanU ( talk) 03:36, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
IMO, Jack Merridew has earned a "final" chance. It is not just the work he has done on other projects, but also the manner in which he has communicated with others about his prior behaviour. He has been open and honest, and a hard worker to boot. *fingers crossed*
It should be made clear that this is his final chance, and that he will not be enjoying the benefit of the doubt, so it is on his shoulders to ensure that there is no even the slightest appearance of relapse. It looks like FT2 is going to proposed something along these lines.
In regards to the Arbcom elections, raised by LessHeard vanU above, the discussion about this motion started prior to the elections, and I am pretty sure that it also predates any indication from White Cat that he was going to run. I think it is safe to say there is no possible chance that it was was a motivator in this case. It is a given that Jack Merridew would oppose White Cat if he could, and think it is sufficient "punishment" that he wont be able to that. Limiting him from participating entirely isnt something I would have even thought of, but now that you have raised it, it seems reasonable. It "cant hurt". As you say, if this motion doesnt pass, he wouldnt have been able to participate anyway, so he is no worse off if he is prohibited from participating in this years election. John Vandenberg ( chat) 03:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I am of course less than thrilled at the thought that Davenbelle (aka Moby Dick aka Diyarbakir aka Jack Merridew) would return editing on this site. This isn't something I have any control on, I know that. I do not have to like it but I think I can live with it. All I want to do is not to deal with any more harassment. If only arbcom can pass measures and enact mechanisms to insure that...
I will however say this. Moreschi is not an uninvolved third party on this matter. I would recommend arbcom to pick a mediator that does not have a past quarrel with me. I'd be extremely uncomfortable in asking Moreschi for help. I really do not want to be put in a situation any more uncomfortable than it already is. PLEASE!
Also in my view Jack Merridew should at least have three different mediators. If one mediator is unavailable (leaves the project, gets ill, gets hit by space debris, does a head-on with a planet and anything else equally unlikely) others would be there. This would also be in the best interest of Jack Merridew too me thinks.
-- Cat chi? 06:59, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I am in favor of this. I have seen this user in action on other wikis and I think he truly is committed to making a successful return here, and truly understands what will be required to do so. Further, as a steward, I've reviewed the unification of accounts other than Jack Merridew (which have all be explicitly directly disclosed to me although they are public record) and if there are any issues (there are some accounts that are in use by other users) I will do my best to assist in resolving them.
Finally, if the ArbCom desires that more than one mentor be appointed I am willing to so serve (this matter has come up in private communication already). However, I have confidence in Moreschi. He and I have already communicated and I have offered him whatever assistance he may choose to ask for that is in my power to give. ++ Lar: t/ c 07:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Question to whoever: Where do things stand? I see the main motion has apparently passed and none of the others are close, correct? Thanks for clarification. ++ Lar: t/ c 21:59, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I would also be happy to mediate in unbanned. I found Jack Merridew's behaviour infuriating at AfD, and I guess my views are more aligned with White Cat and other inclusionists. However, like some other deletionists, Jack has some very valid points on systemic bias and addressing it, is good with layout and has been contributing constructively on much-needed article content elsewhere. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 11:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Oh dear God no. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Wow. What a horribly bad idea. I can't believe any arbitrator is even considering this. Y'know, why don't you just really shit on White Cat *and* WP:HARASSMENT and make Jack Merridew an arbitrator while you're at it? Jack Merridew would be a great arbitrator — he's obviously good at manipulating you clowns. How can you people be so fucking stupid? Y'know, that may be too salty. Can I get a mentor pretty please? This isn't just about the constant stalking. This isn't just about the constant socking. This isn't just about the constant lying about the socking.
Please, come to your senses and look at this graph, this thread on Jimbo's talk page, this AN thread, this AN thread and also Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2/Workshop (I know it may be the first time for some of you). Search for "Jack Merridew" on the E&C2 workshop page and think about what you'd be doing. Pay special attention to this thread and keep in mind Jack Merridew's later admission of sockpuppetry. After I made a motion to add Jack Merridew as an involved party of E&C2, he responded with insults and by following me to AFDs. This isn't just about harassment of White Cat (although that really should be enough, don't you think?) This isn't just about the constant lying. If you unblock David aka D73733C8-CC80-11D0-B225-00C04FB6C2F5 aka Senang Hati aka Moby Dick aka Diyarbakir aka Davenbelle aka Note to Cool Cat aka Thomas Jerome Newton aka Jack Merridew, you might as well open E&C3 now (and proceed to sit on your thumbs for 3 months). Now let me tell you a story.
Once upon a time, a woman named Allison Sudradjat, AusAID's Minister Counsellor in Indonesia, who administered aid from Australia to Indonesia, boarded Garuda Indonesia Flight 200 in Jakarta and when it went to land on March 7, 2007 in Yogyakarta Indonesia at Adisucipto International Airport, it overran the end of the runway and crashed and burst into flames and she died, along with 20 other people. Two months after the crash, David (aka D73733C8-CC80-11D0-B225-00C04FB6C2F5 aka Senang Hati aka Moby Dick aka Diyarbakir aka Davenbelle aka Note to Cool Cat aka Thomas Jerome Newton aka Jack Merridew) from Bali (or a kampong near Bali), who started editing October 31 2004, who has in the past repaired the roof on the Senang Hati Foundation, and was perhaps momentarily bored of stalking White Cat at the time, wrote an article about her and it was deleted. In anger, instead of improving the article, he then sought to delete every article related to "pop culture" he could find (although I don't really see how that fits with David's problem with " Jimmy's other pocket"). Congratulations David! Now when anyone wants to learn about D&D, Wikia thanks you for the page views! For his all-around assholery, David received death threats and impersonators. I guess harassment begets harassment.
At one point, after he had gotten his lulz, Jack Merridew admitted to being Davenbelle and he was blocked indefinitely. In March 2008, David asked that the article about Allison Sudradjat be placed in his userspace and David finally decided to improve it. Casliber placed it in the mainspace and Pegasus deleted it under G5. Casliber took it to DRV in April 2008 and the article was re-created. Am I warm so far David? Or are you full under a bridge somewhere? After the Senang Hati Foundation and Allison Sudradjat articles were improved, perhaps David is less bitter now and trusts in the editing process on Wikipedia. However, why should anyone trust David after the unmitigated bullshit he has pulled? You do not trust people who have shown themselves to be untrustworthy over and over and over again. Fool Arbcom once, twice, three times...how many times does it take? Seriously? David sure isn't making the Senang Hati Foundation look any better. If I ever get in a plane crash in Indonesia and end up paralyzed, I'll be sure to go to the Senang Hati Foundation for my free wheelchair and complimentary stalker.
What are the risks of unblocking Jack Merridew? What are the benefits? Are there any? How could you even consider an unblock without a topic ban in fiction? If Jack Merridew is unblocked, that is a clear message by the arbitration committee that WP:HARASSMENT means fuck all, that users can do anything they want and always be forgiven, and that ArbCom is a joke — just in time for the 2008 elections. Yeah, unblock Jack Merridew right before the elections where White Cat is running. White Cat's the pig! Run White Cat run! -- Pixelface ( talk) 12:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I did some minor clerking on this case before hand, but I have recused myself from further such edits, this is a personal opinion
I am not familiar with the gory details of this case but I take the following two things as fact:
That there has been harassment is a serious problem, and needs to be dealt with the utmost of caution. That we see the ability of any editor to reform is noble, enacting this belief with caution would be most wise. Using a mentor-cum-watch dog is sensible, but it is certainly not sensible to use a mentor that the victim of harassment doesn't trust. This would be roughly equivlent to having a stalker's parole officer be the ex-spouse of the stalkee. I make no comment here on Moreschi's actual ability or lack thereof, I am simply pointing out without White cat trusting Moreschi, this rehabilitation is too dangerous and prone to spectacular failure. Unless the mentoring position is given to (a) individual(s) White cat can trust, these motions should not pass.-- Tznkai ( talk) 17:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I support Jack Merridew being mentored by Casliber, but I also strongly recommend a ban from AfDs (way too much dishonest use of WP:JNN style of non-arguments) and instead advise that he focus on constructive article development for which I would be willing to colloborate. Just as I have avoided commenting in AfDs for some time now, anyone else should have no problem taking a step back as well as that was clearly one of Jack's conflict areas and for his own good, he would be wise to avoid areas where he is likely to run into conflicts. Actually, it's probably best that the more pollarizing and controversial figures step back from commenting in those discussions and focus on article development anyway as there are plenty of other non-controversial editors who can comment one way or the other. Best, -- A Nobody My talk 19:39, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Clearly arbcom have not been reading their mail. No interaction or public commenting on White Cat was already explicitly agreed upon in the discussions which have been cced to arbcom-l. By all means vote on it formally, but we had already thought of this one. Otherwise, I will simply limit myself to pointing out that JM is a reasonable fellow, he can be kept away from White Cat, and that I am fully committed to doing so for his own benefit and for that of the encyclopedia. Yours, Moreschi ( talk) 21:35, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
This is one of the only things where I wind up aligning with Pixelface and White Cat. Jack maintained a pattern of deceptive behaviour that lasted for years. It wasn't just passive deception, either: he actively lied to all of us. We always need good editors, but there is no need to welcome back the chronically deceitful.— Kww( talk) 03:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
He is doing good work on other Wikimedia projects? Good, he can continue to do so. But he has used all chances he deserved here, and more. I don't understand the bending over backwards to give some people an umpteenth chance. What message are we supposed to be giving here? Keep him banned from en.wikipedia ad infinitum, and don't waste anymore time on chronic trouble makers. Fram ( talk) 09:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
It is fully my intent to comply with the terms proposed. Since I was en:blocked, I have discussed the situation with a variety of experienced editors. I have made a great many much appreciated edits to projects other than en:wp; I have more edits elsewhere, than here. I have found the experience on the wider gamut of projects enlightening. I expect to keep a significant focus on the other projects.
I have no issue with FT2's amendments; it has been understood all through these discussions that further interaction is the issue here. I will leave it to others. As to the AC elections, no, my appeal is not motivated by any particular candidacy; as John says, it predates. I have no intention of making the given oppose; it would only serve to inflame. I do object to a complete disfranchisement. I've seen the current discussion re Everyking and what seems a similar situation and I do not feel that my otherwise participating in the process is inappropriate. If such an editing restriction is passed, I will abide by it. It would, however, be a poor precedent to set.
Please noted that;
remains in effect; this has been discussed in emails and should be a part of this.
Cheers, Jack Merridew 07:14, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
re: Moreschi's role:
The term 'mediator' has leaked into the discussion; Moreschi's role is as a mentor to (and monitor of) me, not as a mediator between White Cat and myself. My discussions with Moreschi about this whole situation go back to March. I don't really know just what the dynamic between Moreschi and White Cat is; sure, I have seen bits of disagreement, but nothing much, really. I see the concern about this as moot; if White Cat has a concern down the road, there are 1,600+ admins he could consult, and there's the AC itself. FWIW, when he was placed under mentorship, his mentors included Tony Sidaway who was not a disinterested party.
re: FloNight's and FT2's discussion:
This seems to me to be an internal issue about the AC's role spilling out. It is certainly true that a large volume of counsel resides in my inbox; I've read things carefully and believe that I've gotten the appropriate take-away.
re Pixelface:
Oh, dear, good show. Thank you for reminding me that Elizabeth O’Neill warrants an article, too.
Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:47, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Browsing Wikipedia (still on holiday) I happened to spot this case. I've some history here, having witnessed the harassment of White Cat by Jack Merridew under his various socks for what amounts to White Cat's entire history of editing Wikipedia.
A last chance is deserved by someone who has come clean about matters he previously concealed, denied or equivocated about, and who wishes to do good work. But please, let it be the last chance. Merridew's persistent and malicious harassment of White Cat for more than three years shows that he has an obsessive streak, and White Cat was for too long almost alone in bearing the weight of this obsession. Let Wikipedia be clear: the slightest sign of a return to past form must be the end of Merridew's career. -- TS 01:32, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I find this action to be unfathomable and highly questionable. User:JackMerridew entered into a campaign of fraud and deception for the purposes of pushing his own point of view on various articles and to engaged in sockpuppetry of the highest order. He also, and far more disagreeable, engaged in a campaign to stalk and harass another editor. This is beyond the call of merely pushing a POV this is harassment. Had User:JackNerridew and User:WhiteCat been employees at the same company he would have been dismissed without a moment’s notice. Everyone deserves a second chance, JackMerridew however has demonstrated that he has used all of those chances. I urge this group to keep the ban on User:JackMerridew. Web Warlock ( talk) 19:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a banned user appeal where the Arbitration Committee are acting as route of last appeal. "JM" has a long and serious history of harassment, leading to a ban. The question is, can he decide to avoid White Cat now, and can conditions be crafted that ensure he is non-disruptive if given the chance. Those are fair questions; if the disruption has a fair chance of ending, then fine. If it were to be trialled and it were found that he cannot or would not, then the ban would (and should) be reinstated. Because harassment can be as simple as subtle digs, appearing on the same pages, and so on, the only condition that makes sense is complete avoidance of anything that might even slightly give that appearance - and the responsibility for ensuring that, to be JM's alone.
Users are banned (by the community or Arbcom) usually for serious and persistent behavior issues. When a user has a long term ban (say 3-6 months or more), and behaves during it, then in most cases they may eventually be trialled back as part of the community. This is not a green light for disruption. Relapse risk must be considered, as must the higher barrier for continued trust in their reformation if there were evidence of relapse. Unbans in these conditions should contain some form of strong probation/mentoring if there is any risk of relapse, and a clear understanding that if the behavior resumes, then the ban may very easily be reinstated. This helps them (boundaries), their victims or users the conduct impacts on (deterrent), and the community/project (avoids issues of huge legalisms if they do begin to game or relapse). In brief, a user who is banned, is given good faith trust that they will behave from now on, but is also "on ice" for a long time after, may be more at risk of resumption, and must make sure that the old behaviors are history, as the "unban" hopes that they are. If they do not, then they must expect a reblock/reban may have a much lower "bar" (and unblocking a higher "bar") than it would for a fresh user without such history.
Having discussed this internally, I am content to give JM a try at unban. However I also feel the unban conditions are grossly inadequate and do not protect White Cat from harassment, the community from resumption, or make it direct or simple enough that a relapse will mean the ban resumes. I therefore propose a further motion 2 which is in addition to motion 1, to remedy these. FT2 ( Talk | email) 03:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
1) After reviewing User:Jack Merridew's ban at his request, the Arbitration Committee agrees to unblock his account with the following conditions:
Support:
Oppose:
Abstain:
2) In the event that Jack Merridew is blocked by any administrator for a matter relating to breach of the above terms, any unblock is only to be decided by consent of this Committee, following any communal discussion in the usual place.
Rationale |
---|
Unblock "gaming", or uninformed/low- clue unblocking, are unfortunately far more common these days. If a user is banned for serious harassment, unblocked on trial, and then behaves in a way that any administrator feels a reblock is necessary, then that is not a block I would condone being reversed without the committee having the opportunity to consider the behavior first, in light of what we know of the harassment case history, and any promises made. |
Support:
Oppose:
First, I don't think that special enforcement is needed in this situation. It is significant to note that no admin unblocked the Jack Merridew account despite it not having a special enforcement clause as proposed. If you look through the block log, everyday admin block accounts for harassment and personal attacks. Admins are sensitive to these issues and deal with them regularly. The indefinite block on the Jack Merridew account was done during a Community discussion so there was some ambiguity about how this unblock request should be handled. During a discussion about how to handle this unblock request several ideas were suggested with all of them being reasonable ways to address it. I decided to make it a formal ArbCom ban review instead of having one of the involved admins open an unblock discussion at AN. I did this because I think that AE is a better venue for handling any question about enforcing the sanction or re-writing them if needed.
Second, the Committee does not have a good track record for managing our cases load in a prompt manner. Until we address this problem, I'm not in favor of excluding alternative methods of handling a situation unless there is an absolute reason for doing it (such as an privacy issue or extraordinarily sensitive issues such as pedophilia related account blocks.)
Third, alternative methods of dealing with unblock requests need to be addressed in a more systematic way with the Community. An ban review committee or another alternative way to comprehensively address the growing backlog of requests. Each of these cases deserve to have the attention of experienced impartial users who can craft editing restrictions that will be enforced. This is not something that the Committee should be doing on a regular basis because it is too time consuming.
Fourth, if an individual administrator is using their tools outside of Community norms then it needs to be addressed with them in a direct way. If there is wide spread disagreement in the general Community and among admins about whether a block is appropriate, heavy handed enforcement is usually not the best approach for the Committee to use since the default should be less enforcement not more.
Fifth, more comprehensive discussions about how to handle the different types of harassment, wikihounding, and bullying need to occur in appropriate venues on site.
Last, the Committee needs to guard against putting in place provisions that might lead to more insular thinking. We need to make sure that our policies and practices do not make it more difficult for the Community to reverse a poorly written decision. FloNight ♥♥♥ 16:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Abstain:
3) Condition 4 is amended to add the following explicit clarifications:
"User:Jack Merridew agrees to completely avoid White Cat on Wikipedia English pages. No editing the same pages, no comments about White Cat by name or innuendo. No harassment of White Cat in other venues. This restriction will be interpreted in the broadest way with no allowance for any attempt to skirt the restriction in any manner."
"In particular, if White Cat is editing a page, Jack Merridew is responsible for not editing that page, its closely related pages, or commencing editing on closely related topics elsewhere. If it is a well known page such as ANI, and both have genuinely valid reasons for editing it, Jack Merridew is responsible for ensuring he edits it only on a matter different from, and with timing or manner that has no connection to, any of White Cat's posts there."
Rationale |
---|
Clarification, anti-ambiguity, and anti-gaming on the main condition #4. |
Support:
Oppose:
Abstain:
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Bluemarine was banned for one year by the Arbitration Committee as a result of the case. Requesting that the Committee consider a very limited return to editing for the sole purpose of improving access to Wikipedia articles for people with disabilities.
Bluemarine (Matt Sanchez) is an editor in good standing at Wikimedia Commons and has been contributing useful material. Of particular interest is his voice recording work such as Image:Weimar.ogg - a reading of part of the Weimar Republic article. Recordings such as this one make Wikipedia more available to people who have vision impairments. Mr. Sanchez has an excellent voice and the site could use more contributions of this sort.
Given his history, this is not something to consider lightly. So I propose a very limited unblock for handicapped access purposes only, with myself as his mentor. Mr. Sanchez would be permitted to place encyclopedic audio files at articles unrelated to his previous conflicts. He may format audio file templates and caption those audio files and may edit his own user space. That is all. LGBT issues, broadly defined, would be off limits.
During the early part of Mr. Sanchez's siteban he did sock and was aggressive toward other editors he had been in conflict with. So it's understandable if they have concerns or even outright opposition to this proposal. I have instructed him to refrain from responding if any conflict resumes. "Make it my problem," I told him. He agreed. When I found out he was socking earlier this year and asked him to stop, he pledged to. There has been no problem in that regard since April 1. So with a bit less than four months remaining on the clock for his ArbCom ban, I think this is a reasonable proposal. Hoping others agree. Durova Charge! 06:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I think most requests to lift bans on condition of strict mentorship should be approved on a trial basis. At the first instance of trouble, the ban can be reinstated. I recommend that any uninvolved administrator be allowed to reinstate the ban if necessary, and the editor should be resticted from going anywhere near the areas where they formerly caused disruption. It is far better to have troubled users on the path to return under close supervision than have them sock puppeting or causing disruption through off site means. Jehochman2 ( talk) 16:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm opposed to this motion. Bluemarine wasn't banned for his article contributions. He was banned for rampant incivilty and homophobic personal attacks. Looking through his contributions, there are a total of 9 edits to any talk pages at Wikimedia Commons, and those are from February. Unfortunately, Duova's request does nothing to address the concerns about his behavior.-- A ni Mate 23:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I am strongly opposed to this motion. I was the only editor who provided diffs at the RFA which documented the harassment of Sanchez (and it was a rather extensive collection), so it's fair to say that I'm not opposing due to personal animus. (Discounting the personal attacks by Sanchez after I started blocking his socks after the ban went into effect.) However, I feel that he is not suited to working collaboratively, which is essential here. His contributions to commons are by their nature non-collaborative; they improve the project but do not require interaction with other editors.
In addition to his attacks on LGBT editors and his harassment of other editors through sockpuppets, he has demonstrated poor judgement; after being unblocked to participate in the arbitration case, he made a beeline towards Waterboarding, which at the time was heading toward an an arbitration case of its own. This was after he had been explicitly instructed that the only pages he was to edit were his user pages and the arbitration case pages. He proved unable to comply with the guidelines then, and there is no indication that he will be able to do so now. I have had misgivings about dealing with the issue when the ban was set to expire; I really don't think we should move it forward. Horologium (talk) 11:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Some of the particulars might be deduced by inspecting the checkuser and oversight logs. I recall that the Bluemarine account made a post that made a number of inflammatory and possibly libelous comments about Matt Sanchez. I ran a checkuser and found that those comments were posted from a very different IP than the one that had been previously used, and it was an IP that was linked to other harassment of Sanchez. I think the comments themselves were later oversighted. There were one or more individuals who hacked into Sanchez' email account (he talks about this on his blog) and he either used the same password for wikipedia or the hackers reset the password using the email feature. I have no opinion on allowing Sanchez to contribute as such, but great care and diligence should be taken to ensure that the real and only Matt Sanchez has control of the account. Thatcher 23:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
This committee's decision in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Bluemarine and the preexisting community ban of Bluemarine ( talk · contribs) are modified solely to the extent that Bluemarine is unblocked for the limited purpose of his making contributions related to increasing the accessibility of Wikipedia to users with handicapping conditions. This includes uploading encyclopedic audio files, formatting audio file templates, and captioning those audio files, as well as editing his userpage and talkpage, all under the mentorship of Durova ( talk · contribs). Except as expressly provided in this motion, the ban on editing by Bluemarine remains in effect. If Bluemarine violates the terms of his limited unblock, or makes any comment reasonably regarded as harassing or a personal attack, he may be reblocked for an appropriate period of time by any uninvolved administrator. If Bluemarine complies with these conditions for a period of 60 days, a request for further modification of his ban may be submitted.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
I've also notified a couple people who were tangentally involved, they can decide if they wish to add their names. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 14:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
A few months ago, Newyorkbrad encouraged me to open a new request related to the core of this case, but the wounds were too raw, and I was unable to set out my evidence calmly at that time, so delayed.
I ask that we reopen the matter now.
In this case, the arbcom, while I was suffering from severe depression, illness, and on the verge of nervous breakdown from the monetary situation at the time - I was literally faced with being homeless - opened a case with no prior dispute resolution - I had never had so much as an RfC on me - and chose me to be a test case. In the end, combined with the other events, this forced me to drop out of university. I left Wikipedia over it, and it was only the active, constant encouragement of User:Newyorkbrad, User:Durova and a few others that brought me back after several months.
A sitting arbitrator launched a campaign of harrassment throughout the case pages, unchecked by the other arbitrators. Here are some samples. This all took place over a single bad block, made two months before the Arbcom case was opened.
In the initial lead in to the case, I had offered to let Charles Matthews take over the block, in e-mail, because there was no way that I could review it competently at that point in time. He said that was "not good enough", so I put it up on ANI.
Charles Matthews specifically says at one point that my refusal to simply to defer to his judgement is why he opened this case and pushed so hard for my desysopping:
[N.B. I used to edit under my real name. I will be censoring it wherever it appears, and would ask that if anyone mentions it that it be immediately deleted]
As he did not get my consent immediately (though I did unblock in the end), Charles Matthews then launched a campaign of harassment against me, using the power of the Arbitration committee to harass without fear of rebuttal. A complete read through of the case pages would be necessary to see this in full, so I'll just give a couple typical comments by Charles.
His harassment was not devoted to me, he also referred to other editors in the same over-the top terms:
To quote MastCell's response to the last:
“ | [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Matthew_Hoffman/Workshop#Charles_Matthews_has_failed_to_assume_good_faith Since this case seems to be focusing an unusually intense magnifying glass on the minor failings of everyone even peripherally involved (see Chaser above), it seems fair to note that describing an established, good-faith editor as a "meddling hypocrite, at best" is remarkably poor conduct for anyone involved in an arbitration, much less an sitting Arbitrator. Unless that makes me a meddling hypocrite as well. MastCell Talk 18:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
... and really. Describing someone as a "busybody" and a "meddling hypocrite" for voicing an opinion on a block at WP:AN/I? What sort of message are we aiming for here? MastCell Talk 18:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)] |
” |
However, Charles did not act alone, he was aided and abbetted by the other arbitrators, who actively defended his right to harrass me:
Furthermore, the arbitrators were clearly not interested in anything I had to say in my defense:
The case opened on 17:40, 2 December 2007
[45]. Within 13 hours of this, and before I had had the chance to provide a single word of evidence in my defense, Uninvited Company set out proposed decisions saying
my statements were not borne out by the facts,
to sanction Chaser for not having unblocked Matthew Hoffman,
and to suggest I be desysopped.
The problems with this case have been pointed out for several months, but the Arbcom have refeused to deal with it, even to simply remove the harrassing comments by Charles Matthews.
A proposal I made during the case that I be desysopped immediately, in exchange for the case stopping, because of the health and RL problems being severely aggravated by having this case going on as well, was rejected by the Arbcoim in favour of dragging it out, coninuing the case, then opening an RFC. However, in July, the personal details I had volunteered in an attempt to get them to agree to my proposal were thrown back in my face:
"Since the full circumstances of the de-sysopped user were disclosed to the AC in confidence, the only appropriate way for this user to regain the tools is to convince the AC – the only group of users with full knowledge of the situation – that the circumstances have changed such that we have confidence in his ability to handle adminship without problems." - Morven, on WP:RFAR, 23:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC), seconded by Kirill.
The arbcom have very consciously put me in a situation where only a full discussion of my private problems will prevent them from using them to say that the community is unable to comment on my situation, and that they should have the sole right to discuss what should be done with me. I do not trust myself to comment on their behaviour regarding that matter. Suffice to say that when I DID make a disclosure of some of the health problems of that time, e-mails I received from them afterwards criticised me for not being detailed enough, because I had still wished to maintain some sense of privacy.
Other users have agreed that there are problems with this case:
Likewise Raymond arrit et al, Filll, and numerous others, see the last third of the Proposed decision talk page.
I do not care about getting my adminship back, and I accept that the block was incorrect. However, for my own mental health, I want to put this behind me. Likewise, the campaign of harassment is a blight on the arbcom, and I ask the arbcom to vacate it, in full. As it stands, this case remaining is a statement that, if you upset an Arbitrator, the Arbcom reserves the right to open a "test case" against you with mno proevious dispute resolution, and allow the arbitrator to harass you off the site.
Furthermore, the Arbcom's self-regulation is clearly not working. A basic principle needs to be put in place that all Arbcom decisions can be appealed by the community.
For obvious reasons, I will be crossposting to WP:AN, as I'm afraid that for some reason, I don't really trust the arbcom to judge this case fairly.
Thank you,
User:Shoemaker's Holiday, a.k.a. Vanished user. 14:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
P.S. If the committee would like, I can send them copies of some of the e-mails I got from Charles, or provide other evidence.
Response to Tznkai:
Response to Kirril: Just blank all the pages and leave a note saying it's been withdrawn. That, or something similar, would be sufficient. There's some very nasty stuff on there. I am sorry about this, and I had really hoped we could have dealt with this less publicly, but, well, now that it has been, it's hard to see any other path forwards... Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 06:55, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Response to Sam
In this case, the findings of an arbcom-initiated RfC Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Vanished user were overturned to make a provisional desysop. I am not asking for adminship back and am fully aware that under the current RfA culture I probably never will. What I am asking is for the committee to accept that keeping up an attack piece, where a sitting arbitrator calls people "moral midgets", "dogs", and worse, and in which they harassed a user into a complete breakdown, and then in July unethically used confidential information about that user's health to continue their harassment is something they should not be doing.
What, precisely, in the current decision is so important that it must remain a year afterwards, and how does it justify the gross personal attacks, harassment, and other such things? The only thing that would change by this case being vacated, is that, if I triedd to run an RfA - which I would of course, have no chance of passing, the Arbcom, out of concern for my mental health, would not be able to villify and continue their harassment, by pretending to know anything about my current state of mental health, now that I am not facing being homeless and starving to death, because they knew what my mental health was like when both those things were true. I will urther add that the committee ignored all this information about my health during the case, but only gave any sign they had any knowledge of it at the point they used it to attack me.
The Arbcom has violated my privacy, been part of a harassment campaign against me, and, in July, insisted that I must make a public statement of my private medical details or they would continue holding power over me forever. Show some basic ethics, and stop trying to justify the harassment. The Arbcom has violated basic confidentiality by snidely revealing my health details in July in such a way to make things sound even worse, forcing me to reveal them. Please stop compounding your offenses and let's make a full break with the past, so we can all move on. The longer the Arbcom continues to defend their past bad actions, the more these actions begin to look less like mistakes, and more like intent. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 11:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Second response to Sam
Very well, let's put it aside. You have evidently not looked at the remedies in the case, or it would have been clear that there is very, very little that would be overturned The only restriction that came out of that case was my desysop, (which would not change) and the right to regain the sysop after 6 months by appeal to the committee, with a probation to follow. FT2's commentary makes it clear that this was intended to protect me, in order to assure that I can get adminship back again.
The actual change in consequences is only to remove a proposal that was intended to make sure I could get Adminship back, which I do not want because it involves the Arbcom, and, after what has happened to me in regards to the Arbcom... Well, let's end this statement here. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 13:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Per Kirril's Motion
To FT2
There had never been an RfC, and no real hint that I was doing anything wrong. Had either of those happened, I would probably have agreed to be much more careful. This is why Arbcom is meant to be the LAST resort in dispute resolution, not the first.
Let's review the finding of facts you mention
Finding of fact #3
justify his block of MatthewHoffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) include claims of harassment, POV pushing, extreme rudeness, and vandalism... None of these claims are borne out by a review of Hoffman's contributions.
He was clearly a POV-pusher. No reasonable person would deny that. The issue was that there was not sufficient time given to demonstrate a problematic pattern of POV pushing
As for the rest, as described here, I missed some context that mitigated his comments, but there was, at least, rudeness and attacks on others, justified by the context of a grand battle. I looked at diffs, and failed to consider the full context, and, in the typical manner this case was handled, all these mitigating factors were thrown out, even to the point of claiming he was not a POV pusher.
Finding of Fact #4
4) Vanished user's block of Matthew Hoffman for 72 hours, and the subsequent extension of the block to make it indefinite, were both outside blocking policy. The reasoning used to justify the blocks was fallacious, and Vanished user was involved in a content dispute with Hoffman. Further, the justification for the blocks in part is to encourage Hoffman to "cool down," which contravenes blocking policy.
This contains an utter untruth': I had not edited Irreducible complexity since January, as a search of the page history will show. In order to claim I was in a content dispute with him required claiming that having ever expressed any opinion o a subject, even before you became an admin, worked out to a content dispute. Secondly, only blocks with the sole purpose to make people cool down is outside policy.
WP:BLOCK makes this very explicit:
The emphasis is in the original. Indeed, the block policy also makes a clear distinction between content disputes and conflict of interest, and, while the latter is discouraged, is not actually forbidden.:
FT2 asks for evidence that the decisions made about the Hoffman block were unreasonable. The committtee scraped the bottom of the barrel in order to justify a finding that I was in an active content dispute with Hoffman, mentioning a 7 month old edit to the page as proof. Carcharioth lays out a time scale here
Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Matthew_Hoffman/Evidence#Content_dispute_at_Irreducible_complexity_and_Talk:Irreducible_complexity, I presume that, ignoring the actual dates, this is what the Arbcom used to justify its claims of a content dispute.
In short, the heart of the Arbcom decision with regard to the Hoffman matter - which FT2 declares unassailable - is based on a claimed direct violation of policy that never happened. This was pointed out at the time, [46], [47], etc. - FloNight even responded to a seperate point in the first post. The Arbcom pressed forwards with this anyway, enshrining a lie into a decision about me.
Finding of Fact 9.1 This finding implies there's a lot more that could be found, when, in fact, it is the result of an exhaustive review of every admin action I had made, thus making it almost certainly a complete list of what could possibly be found. Every single one of my blocks was reviewed on the evidence page of the Hoffman case, and Kirril can confirm whether he analysed all page protections, but given Finding of Fact #9 taking examples from my entire time as an admin, that's probably the case. If this is, in fact, all there was - and all evidence points to that - it is a much weaker finding than is implied by its similarities to similar findings of this type. Exhaustive or reasonably exhaustive searches should really be clearly labelled as such, anything else will be read as a representative set.
Furthermore, while at least some of the decisions were mistakes, there were mitigating factors:
semi-protected Homeopathy a second time, citing IP "vandalism". A review of IP activity from Nov 27 - 30 2007 shows the edits related to POV differences and minor edits, not vandalism (WP:VAND refers)...
However, let's have a look at 25 November:
All of these are oobviously and unambiguously vandalism.
There might have been an arguement that the vandalism was not recent enough to justify semi-protection, however, the finding of fact says there was no vandalism, and claims that "The effect was to exclude IP editors with whom he disagreed as well as IP editors adding valid formatting edits." - implying that was my intent, when a review that covered just a two more days would have shown multi-IP vandalism and people having difficulty getting the reversion levels correct, reverting some of the vandalism, but not all. In a poorly-monitored subject, as Homeopathy was, this is problematic.
We could review the others. These had never appeared in evidence, and, by the time they appeared on the finding page, my health had crashed so far and, the arbcom having ignored all my previous comments, it did not seem that the arbcom cared what had to be said. Clearly, some more care would have prevented an appearance of conflict of interest, however, I was literally the only admin watching many of these pages, and most administrators had been scared off of all action on those pages, due to the poor editing environments there. Conflict of interest might have been an issue, but remember that the Arbcom case was the first procedural discussion of conflict of interest related to me, had any other dispute resolution occurred, I would have very likely accepted the problem and stopped doing the behaviours in question. The arbcom stated, upon taking the case, that the lack of any prior dispute resolution related to me would be taken into consideration.
I believe all the actions are defensible - not that they were correct, but that they were understandable mistakes, given the poor guidance I had, and that, as an inexperienced admin, I was working in one of the most contentious and poorest-monitored sections of Wikipedia. Had the arbcom cared to ask, I would have attempted to give my reasoning.
Here is what the community thought about these findings in the RfC that arbcom arranged to run, then ignored. Uninvited Company - I'm going to simplify this thread a bit, but I believe my summary is accurate - later claimed that the defense of me consisted solely of Scientific-point-of-view proponents and was thus ignored in favour of unnamed and unnumbered people who e-mailed the Arbcom in order to attack me. (Who clearly lacked a point of view?) [53]
On blanking I was told this would be done in February. This is far too little, far too late, and does not even deal with the errors of fact in the findings of fact mentioned above. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 12:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
On Flonight's proposal
This looks fine. I might prefer it a brief statement saying the new statement replaced the previous content and decisions as well, but I think that I can bend a little bit to meet the Arbcom in the middle.
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk) 23:06, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
On thinking about this, the "no longer active" is so ambiguous that it could be read as meaning anything. If we're going to make a decision on this, it probably needs to be one that won't simply cause more confusion. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 00:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
This case was handled badly. I think it would be a very good to erase it completely, on grounds of procedural unfairness. As there is no request to restore adminship, I see that the only action required is for ArbCom to acknowledge this open secret. Jehochman Talk 14:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
This case started with the posting of a remedy, before the accused had time to fully respond. Then it was suspended to run an RFC that generally opposed what the Committee was doing, selective enforcement or making one individual into an example to deter others. Then the Committee proceeded to disregard the opinions expressed in the RFC. A variety of us have asked for personal attacks within the case to be denounced or refactored. Thus far, these requests have been ignored. I am asking for two very specific things: 1/ the Committee blanks all the pages. 2/ the Committee makes a public statement recognizing the poor treatment of those involved. Public insults or abuse require a public retraction. Three wrongs don't make a right. The fact that the block was bad does not excuse Committee members to personally abuse those involved, nor does it excuse the Committee as a whole from culpability for conducting a kangaroo court. Cheers, Jehochman Talk 16:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The manner in which this case was accepted is at best inappropriate opening of a case without allowing it to go through normal channels of having a block overturned. At worst, it appears to be an attempt to game the system by a sitting arbitration member pushing for a speedy resolution in his favour without giving a chance for rebuttal or defence.
I'm also unsettled by the use of 'secret reasons' for the desysop and block on re-admitance. Nor does the remedy sit well with the committee's actions towards more 'establishment figure' administrators who have had similar 'isolated bad decisions'.
In my eyes, the case wasn't taken on correctly, and not enough time was given for a defence. So this case was not legitimate, and none of it's findings or remedies should be active. It should be erased and apologised for.-- Barberio ( talk) 15:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
With all due respect, the Arbitration process is a quasi-legal process, and claiming it isn't makes you appear to deny the reality of how your own committee works, much in the same way people claim there is no bureaucracy in Wikipedia. This is not unusual, quasi-legal processes exist in many associations, such as 'courts' that rule on FIA motor sports rule infractions. You need to recognise that this is a quasi-legal process, and act appropriately.
So since it is a quasi-legal process, you need to make sure your actions don't prejudice someone's case, you need to be as clear and open as you can be, and you need to apply suitable fairness.
You are explicitly not the fire-fighting team tasked with making quick emergency actions. You are supposed to act deliberatively, and urgent injunctions should be injunctions not rushed rulings. If you do not know the difference between an injunction and a ruling then you probably shouldn't be ruling on cases.
It is well within your power to make a temporary injunctions, and then investigate a case deliberatively. Failure to do so puts the legitimacy of the rulings at risk. -- Barberio ( talk) 11:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Additionally, it is my opinion that the current ArbCom claim they do not set precedent, while acting like the do. This appears to be a misunderstanding of what the word precedent means... If you have used the same 'principles' from one case, to another, to another, that is use of precedent. This is standard practice by the ArbCom.
Again, denying you use precedents when you clearly do signals a misunderstanding of your own role.
Combined with the growing attempts to create policy, and hang 'resolutions' such as Motion of clarification in the Tobias Conradi case up as binding rulings, is troubling. -- Barberio ( talk) 11:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
This request was opened overnight without my knowledge, and I read it on my first cup of coffee. In the interests of avoiding another arbitration, I urge the Committee to consider this motion. In addition to other objections, I have reason to believe the case was initiated upon misleading representations. Durova Charge! 15:47, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I seriously question whether he stayed away from Wikipedia for several months. My memory is that he was logging into the admin IRC network under his real name immediately after his case closed. Yes, Shoemaker appeared 18 February 2008 [54], while the case was closed 13 February 2008 [55]. Yet, Shoemaker states above "I left Wikipedia over it, and it was only the active, constant encouragement of User:Newyorkbrad, User:Durova and a few others that brought me back after several months." Whether or not he believes this to be true, I cannot say. If he believes it, he's in no condition to be an admin again. If he doesn't, he's in no condition to be an admin again.
I have been the victim of his continued harassment since I took part in his ArbCom and RfC. If any action would give him back his admin tools, then I strenuously object, as he has continued to be an abusive editor since his desysopping. He already tried, by the regular means, to get his tools back at an RfA. He lost. He has lost the trust of the community. —— Martinphi Ψ~ Φ—— 20:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
My memory is also that while the ArbCom did not adhere to strict protocol in the case, it nevertheless went out of its way to ensure a full and just hearing of the case. It actually suspended the case pending an RfC. I have absolutely no doubt that if the ArbCom had seen anything in the RfC which indicated that Vanished user should keep his admin buttons, the ArbCom would have revised the case. Indeed, I am fully convinced that there were things which Vanished user could have done to keep his buttons: he could simply have said he was wrong and wouldn't do it again. He didn't. I told him how to keep his buttons, and he didn't do it. I believe the ArbCom was open to being convinced that their initial judgment was wrong, and the RfC failed to convince them. Certainly, Vanished user had many friends, who essentially said "he fights trolls, so excuse him." But that's not an excuse, and the ArbCom knew it. —— Martinphi Ψ~ Φ—— 21:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
I have only recently become aware of this, and fully endorse Jehochman's view: it would be very good to erase it completely. This was bad procedure and sets bad precedent. It should never have happened. Verbal chat 21:56, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
A case was vacated earlier this year, though I'd prefer slightly different wording. If it is to be vacated, perhaps the Committee can vote on a motion that will replace (blank) what's on the case pages: "The Committee declares that the decision viewable in the history is vacated and not in effect. The history of the case pages are preserved for transparency." The Committee may need to issue a further report, or further statements that can hopefully help heal the wounds of those involved. Ncmvocalist ( talk) 05:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
It is time to embrace the change in approach that the rest of Wikipedia (heck, the rest of the world) have been pushing for more and more recently - this will become even more evident in the next couple of elections. A case was vacated earlier this year; this is another one that needs to be vacated in the manner specified in Kirill's motion.
Tendentious editing, civil POV pushing, problem editing, or whatever else you want to call it, is by far, one of the biggest problems this project is facing. Nothing can be compared to the detrimental effects this has on Wikipedia, the community in general, or those individual users who unfortunately encounter this sort of behaviour regularly.
I've read through this case a couple of times in the past, as if it were any other case. When I noticed many uninvolved members of the community engaging in heated discussion about it off-wiki and criticized certain members of the Committee in an extreme manner, my curiosity was sparked to read it again. I read part of it again just now and this finding got me emotionally charged.
The experience I had when handling a particular problem editor (not that long ago) was disgusting. A number of checkusers (including arb emeritus or arbitrators), as well as admins and editors should have some recollection of who I am referring to. The amount of red tape and formalities I needed to go through (and the time and effort taken) were immensely horrible. It took weeks before there was enough evidence to justify a ban on that problem editor for disruption from sockpuppetry/meatpuppetry - and even that was with some luck. It took months before I was able to demonstrate (for the purposes of red-tape and formality) that the editor had been engaging in POV pushing, extreme rudeness, harassment and general disruption. In any case, I am certain we have all learnt from it. I'm not unexperienced in identifying problem editors - particularly from the sorts of expressions they use, the way they approach a dispute, and the way they approach a dispute. And I'm pretty sure I've been AGF'ing in this regard too. That said, I have no doubt that Matthew Hoffman was one such problem editor based on his contributions.
I was lucky to get through it because of a handful of users from different categories. However, many editors, including one very recently, was not so lucky and left Wikipedia as a result (an arbitrator was made aware of this recently). I appreciate the help the Committee provides in trying to resolve this problem, but this case does not do that; it does the opposite. A large number of the community are afraid to take action due to what may happen to them (i.e. what happened in this case). We're willing to desysop an admin for using some clue and taking action quickly, but we're unwilling to desysop admins who take no action at all? Yes, there were errors in his admin judgement sometimes, but RFC is supposed to provide a 2nd chance. In any case, it's a moot point anyway, as adminship isn't the point of clearing the case.
The case is having a causal effect on editors leaving the project due to the lack of support for community ridding the project of problem editors as early as possible. Such an outcome is not compatible with the goals of this project, and further shakes what confidence the community has in the Committee. I request that the case is vacated in the manner specified in Kirill's well-considered motion so that we can all move on. Ncmvocalist ( talk) 12:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I was tangentially involved in this case. For the reasons stated by Durova above, I think the committee should simply blank the case, leaving Shoemaker's Holiday without his bit, but removing the restriction on how he might get it back. His not asking for it back gives ArbCom a good opportunity to correct their error without forcing them to the logical conclusion of making him an admin again.
The comments below belie how ArbCom decisions are treated in the community. ArbCom de-sysopping has been called the kiss of death for former admins returning to RFA; this was true for Shoemaker's Holiday despite the name change. Negative FoFs in a case follow editors (particularly project-space heavy editors) around the wiki. The final decision included adding a note to Hoffman's block log that ArbCom found the blocks to be unjustified. Shoemaker's Holiday, still an active editor, deserves at least the same consideration as someone no longer contributing here. He is asking for the Committee to once again officially acknowledge a mistake, but this time its own. In practical terms, replacing the page's contents with a big notice that the case has been vacated, à la Orangemarlin, is appropriate.-- chaser - t 22:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not enthused about the appearance, if not the reality of rewriting history in the last sentence of 1.3. But I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.-- chaser - t 19:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
The central claim made in the decision to desysop SH was that he was involved in a content dispute with Matthew Hoffman. Given that the last time SH had edited the page in question was 7 months prior to Hoffman's block, does the ArbCom acknowledge that this claim is incorrect? JoshuaZ ( talk) 23:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I have said before that having negative findings of "fact" against them is very vile for the individual, especially if it involves judgments about a person's character, dismissiveness or other obnoxiousness (not saying this is the case here, but in general.) It would be difficult to 'vacate' an entire case, but I think the person should be allowed right to reply at the bottom of the decisions page if they feel false things have been said about them, otherwise a final judgement is made against them which will stand on wikipedia for years to come. Definitely an addendum should be added by the arbs if some false things they said about someone are later seen to be false- or those comments the arbs made which are later seen to be false should be struck out. Or is there Arbcom Infallibility? Clearly not as I like to think we're all partly human, and that arbcom can sometimes admit any errors or excessive obnoxiousness. Sticky Parkin 02:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
It seems like significant common ground exists, though the emotions inspired by this case seem to have everyone talking past each other. I sense from the Arbs' comments that they see at least some validity in the idea that this case was poorly handled. The resistance to vacating it seems to stem from the belief that the case's conclusions were valid, even if its execution was suboptimal.
Why not just append a resolution indicating that the Arbitration Committee recognizes deficiencies in the handling of this case (ideally, the deficiencies could be enumerated; I offer a modest example here)? That the Committee intends to learn from those deficiencies, in the interest of quality improvement, but at the same time affirms the final remedies as valid? I hear SH saying that the case was handled unfairly, and I hear FT2 saying, "Well, maybe, but the end result was valid." Folks, those are not mutually exclusive viewpoints. MastCell Talk 18:10, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I joined Arbcom a month into the case, and so one of my first questions was to review it carefully. The case was initially brought to get a review of the rise in " newbie biting" culture, by reviewing the behavior of those involved in the Matthew Hoffman block and its declined unblock, and assessing if Shoemaker's Holiday had acted properly as an administrator. By itself, this was one block 2 months previous to the case. It would probably not have led to a serious result of the form Charles Matthews had requested. The case was formally accepted due to the divisive issues and to help resolve doubts, a reasonable view. Charles' Matthews also stated that a good explanation was still outstanding despite email requests chased up on the users' talk page in November.
On that basis, I would consider the case valid. But that wasn't all. By the time I reviewed, I found that there had not been just one mildly questionable block 2 months before the case. There had been multiple clear misuses of admin access, not just one, documented – easily sufficient (in my book) to show a pattern, and easily enough for an RFAR or a request to the Committee to take action. (See for example Findings of Fact # 3, 4, and 9.1.) It is common for a case to be accepted, and then adjust to take account of new factors that are presented in evidence. In this case the new factors included a worrying number of "bad" blocks, not just one. The most recent had been mere days before the case opened, ie at the end of November (and 19 hours before the RFAR case request was posted), not 2 months previous. Any one of those blocks alone might have been enough to formally warn an administrator at RFAR.
It is obvious and clear that the case process, handling, and so on, was extremely upsetting to Shoemaker's Holiday, some of which I agree with him on, some of which I think he's leaning on too much and isn't merited. Most of the case is history, and that's good. Shoemaker's Holiday has gotten past the issues mostly and that's good. But vacating the case would be asking for agreement the case was not valid, and should never have been heard, and I can't agree on that. I can only agree it should have been heard better in terms of handling than it was - a state of affairs for which numerous statements of apology have been sought and given and I'm at a loss to see what yet another can do. The case (and its final decision) were viable; the "how it got there" which is the issue, is secondary and has been discussed at length. The notion of "I need this case vacated for my own personal peace of mind" doesn't work for me since arbitration cases exist to serve the project, and there was a clearly reasonable and well evidenced project need for it (since bad adminship is a serious concern), even if this could have been processed, documented and followed up a lot better than it was. FT2 ( Talk | email) 06:27, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
1) All pages of the Matthew Hoffman case shall be blanked and replaced with a notice that the case is vacated. This is done with the understanding that Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk · contribs) shall consult with the Committee should he wish to become an administrator.
1.1) All pages of the Matthew Hoffman case shall be courtesy blanked. This is done with the understanding that Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk · contribs) shall consult with the Committee should he wish to become an administrator.
1.2) All pages of the Matthew Hoffman case shall be blanked with an edit summary saying, "The Matthew Hoffman case ruling is no longer active", and will be replaced with the statement, "After receiving feedback about the use of his administrative tools, Shoemaker's Holiday voluntarily agreed to give up his tools and in the future to consult with the Arbitration Committee should he want to have them returned."
1.3) In light of all the circumstances presented, the findings and remedies contained in this committee's decision in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Matthew Hoffman are withdrawn insofar as they reflect adversely on the editor identified as "Vanished user." A notation to this effect will be made on the case pages, which have already been courtesy blanked. This action is based on the cumulative circumstances, and does not constitute a precedent for the routine withdrawal or vacating of arbitration decisions based on later disagreement with the decisions reached. The committee notes that after receiving feedback about the use of his administrator tools, Shoemaker's Holiday voluntarily agreed to give up his tools and to consult with the Arbitration Committee should he wish to become an administrator in the future.
On principle. Findings that were properly decided, and accurately represent principles, actions, incidents, decisions, and communal norms related to these, would remain valid. I'm not quite sure how one "unfinds" that admin tools were misused, for example, when the evidence even on review makes it clear to an uninvolved administrator or user that this was the case. While I am acutely aware of the hurt felt (I've been a strong supporter of Shoemaker's holiday for as long as I've known him), any party in any case may feel "hurt" -- this isn't a good enough reason for removing valid verifiable findings of a case even if the processes that case followed leave a lot to be desired. This would be the same regardless of any standing of the requesting party.
The aim in this motion is to reduce the upset felt by a user, which I support... but at the cost of "unfinding" matters that genuinely took place and that were rightly deemed improper by the Committee, undertaken by that user. Specifically, multiple other users were blocked, and multiple other users were prevented from editing by utterly wrongful protection applied by an administrator who was heavily involved in editing "against" them; some users were described on the wiki as vandals who were not. These users mattered too. The level of pragmatism required to "unfind" these points is not one I feel is good precedent, or a wise compromise. I am unable to endorse a proposed decision to do so. FT2 ( Talk | email) 15:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)