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Maedin (talk) 21:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Middle Fork! I hope I can be of some help to you, so I will try to answer your questions as best I can, in about 2 hours. At the moment, I'm being called away, :-) Talk soon, Maedin\ talk 17:06, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- Ok, I'm back. Now, to your questions, :-)
- Hi, Maedin! Thanks so much. I am really excited to be around so many worker bees doing good works. I pretended this double colon would do another tab indent, and it did!!
- First, the link that you clicked on in the welcome template took you to Roux's talk page because of a coding problem that I haven't been able to sort out yet. I left my signature after the welcome though, and you could have clicked on the talk link after my name, to get to my talk page. Roux is another editor (not a machine). I'm sorry that it was confusing for you, I am trying to work on the problem so the link takes users to my talk page.
- Got it. I would not have predicted that I was walking into a coding problem.
- I see you asked Roux about bots, so I will try to explain. I created the account for you, but I have the SQLBot-Hello set up to leave welcome messages for me. I don't always do it so impersonally, but we regularly receive dozens of account creation requests, so we have just added some automation to make it a less labour-intensive task.
- I did read about bots in Andrew Lih's book, "The Wikipedia Revolution." I asked the initial question in order to find out why your welcome message seemed to be tied to both a person and a bot. Thanks for explaining.
- There are a couple of ways that you can leave messages on talk pages. The link that you found on my talk page takes you to the "nice box," as you say. However, you can also get that by clicking on a small tab at the top of the window, with a plus sign (+) on it. Don't worry, it took me ages to figure that one out, it was far too small and I just kept missing it! Using the + tab works on user talk pages, as well as article discussion pages. This option is useful, but only if you are creating a new section. If you wish to join a conversation that already has a section, then you need to go to the user talk or the article discussion, and click edit, and then add your comments in the appropriate place. You can create an indent from the left (like I have done here) by beginning the first line of your paragraph with a colon (:).
- I am feeling so liberated, learning two ways to interact!
- Creating sections without using the + tab is easy, though. All you need to do is surround the section heading in equal signs. ==like this==. For example, if you click on "edit" for your own talk page, you will see that this section title (RE: Questions about Using Talk Pages) has == on each side.
- Got it.
- If you would like some input and discussion on articles that you wish to edit, then you can go to the article's discussion page (you can find this as a "discussion" tab at the top) and add your comments. The pages may not receive a lot of traffic though, so responses might be sparse. Your best bet, as you tried to do, is to talk to User:Goldenrowley directly. Visit his talk page, and use the + tab to create a new section there. Make sure you tick (or "check") the box for watching the page, because Goldenrowley may choose to answer you at his own page. Once he answers there, you will see that the change has been made in your watchlist.
- Great. You have taught me how to talk with him.
- As for your user name, I can't think of any reason why you might want to change it! I think a lot of people have names without spaces because they are used to the constraints of email addresses. If they had realised when they created their accounts that they could have spaces, probably a lot of contributors here would have! There are so many different user names though, from whole sentences ( User:Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry) to just symbols ( User:\ /) to just a couple of letters and numbers ( User:Nz26). There is no question of "being like everyone else", as there is huge variety . . . you would never manage it! However, if you really do wish to change it (to anything else, not just Middlefork) then you need to visit the page Changing username. It isn't too late to change it, just follow the instructions there. All of the edits that you have made so far will be transferred to your new moniker, if you wish to "make the change", :-)
- OK. I will keep a pat hand.
- You probably went to a community sandbox and saw the inappropriate edits. You can create your own sandbox, if you wish, but as you say, "Preview" works fine, too.
- Clear.
- I've just seen the new message from you. When you type the four tildes to get your signature, it automatically adds your name, so you don't need to type Middle Fork at the end of your message. As you can see at the message you left me, you have your username written twice. Just a tip for the future, :-)
- I understand.
- I hope I've answered the questions you have for now. I like to help, so if you need anything else, either let me know on my talk page, or leave a message here. It's bedtime in my part of the world, so if it's seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm really just getting my beauty sleep! There is a place that you can ask for help if it's urgent though, it's the Help desk. Thank you for your interest and don't be concerned that it all seems like a lot to learn . . . it's normal! Maedin\ talk 20:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks so much. I am really thrilled by all of this. Going off to me real job now, even on Sunday, since I did not work as much as I should have last week. By the way, at your convenience, can you tell me what ":-)" means? I see it on my favorite political blog, firedoglake. Seems to be one of the international symbolic shortcuts emerging for texting, email, etc, like "nt" Middle Fork ( talk) 21:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- You're very welcome. I'm glad it was clear to you, I wondered if maybe it had all come out incomprehensible! :-) is a "smiley", otherwise known as an emoticon. Two eyes :, a nose -, and a smile ). It has become a pretty much international shortand, and used in myriad ways. It can keep the tone friendly (perhaps in a tense conversation), or show that you are amicable and don't mind being asked questions, or make a jesting comment obviously jesting, in case there could be some doubt, or they may be typed because the typist is a very smiley person, like me! Because text is devoid of facial expression and tone of voice, it can be difficult to get your point across as you intended, without the use of quick and easy shortand like :-). Oh, and you will find that the smiley has morphed into the "laugh or cheeky grin", :-D, and the "I'm not sure about this..." or "indifferent" :-/, and the "I'm not happy!" :-(, and "surprise" :-O, and the "wink", ;-). There are others, some of them much more complicated. I don't know what they all mean, either, I just stick to the basic, "universal" emoticons. Hope that wasn't too much tedious detail for you! Maedin\ talk 07:00, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I suppose I should add that it is entirely a matter of personal choice and that many people, on wikipedia and elsewhere, choose not to use emoticons at all. Some people are better communicators than others and don't feel that they need them, and some people view emoticons as a bit on the immature side! It really is a matter of personal preference, whether you use them or not, or you can choose to use them only when they really will make a difference to the tone of your message. It is similar to shortand like "np" for no problem, or "ty" for thank you, and "IMO" for in my opinion . . . some people choose to use shortcuts, other people prefer to be purist and type it all out. You decide what works best for you! Maedin\ talk 07:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I reverted some of your edits tonight, I mean no disrespect but you deleted references, which takes away the logic and framework from which major portions are written. We have sort of a policy not to delete anything with a cited source (even if its disagreeable) for example Levy and Kroeber. That does not mean you can't qualify them and offer a different point of view. My intent was to keep the new things and references you added, but to bring back some of the stuff I had gathered in the past. Thanks ! Goldenrowley ( talk) 02:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I am the meatclerk that worked with Goldenrowley on Ohlone. To your request for addition of the information, we can discuss this, but currently there is no reason to add this information. There were multiple cannon shots at different times that frighten the natives, but it is part of a larger narrative and would not work well within what is currently online. Feel free to text me again, to discuss this. Thanks meatclerk ( talk) 05:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, Meatclerk. I must admit to some consternation. I am more concerned about the question of Ohlone/Costanoans in Marin than I am in particular stories about frightened Indians and cannon shots. The three texts I cited on "Costanoan in Marin" are in the published scholarly record, and the first two, if ever read alone by some interested person, would cause them to think that modern scholarship is incorrect in assigning southern Marin County to the Ohlone/Costanoans. Please suggest to me where I might place that discussion and those references in Wikipedia? Middle Fork ( talk) 14:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Middle Fork. I just read your bio on your user page. I think it is an extremely good idea to put up a wiki with those sources and it is not difficult at all. The only requirement is serverspace and a domain, the wiki software can be downloaded for free. I once set up a wiki intended to house my fieldnotes on Nahuatl I spend about a week and then my time was taken by other projects. If you'd like I'd be willing to help you on this. ·Maunus·ƛ· 01:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Maunus, Happy to have your input and advice. My situation is a little more complex than I portrayed in on my User page. I have a complex GIS layer already built, for 680 local ethnographic groups in lowland cismontane California. It ties to a database of 77,000 Indians baptized at the California Franciscan missions. Now, slowly, I am building Wiki pages for local group in each one of the regions. The text not only ties to all ethnographic and historic evidence about the group, but defends the boundaries of the polygons that it is tied to. Right now the map is in GIS, but I am told that it can move to KML and Google Earth. Next factoid, I am gradually losing my mind and my enthusiasm. I need more than a "place" to put the map and text monographs. I need a group that will "care for it" and keep it clean and growing. I feel like I have more of a Wiki:Germany attitude than a full out Wikipedia:libertarian pirhana feed attitude. So I have approached the librarians and Digital Historical Geography Center that is getting started at University of California at Merced. They are interested in being the core site for the project, and having their seniors and graduate students "learn by doing" with some of the text areas I will never get to, also in being administrators for a more open system. SO...... all this is changing by the week. Could you send me access to your Nahuatl wiki, or any meta-documentation, that I could share with the UC Merced people to help us understand various models and directions we might take? Any other thoughts appreciated as well. Middle Fork ( talk) 02:43, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm, that is slightly more complex. Unfortunately I can't show you my Nahuatl wiki - I lost enthusiasm and stopped paying the server rental. :( I still want to make one for real one day, but like you I think I would like someone to share it with in order to boost the enthusiasm.
·Maunus·ƛ· 13:10, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Maunus. Thanks for getting back to me. If we believe in our materials, we have to ask ourselves "Where will this stuff be in 100 years [ignoring "Mad Max" probability]?" Your Nahuatl notes will be in some paper archive, but archives for complex digital maps are only now developing. Middle Fork ( talk) 19:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry to say TimidGuy no longer edits Wikiepdia but is retired. He may check his email account every now and then, so you might email him, although I have no idea of he does or not. Sadly, other than that he isn't available to any of us anymore.( olive ( talk) 23:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC))
- Although a gentle editor TG waded into messes most editors wouldn't touch ...so I'd be more likely to call him CourageousGuy. At any rate I miss his intelligent, civilized, and kind presence. Welcome and good luck with your articles and editing( olive ( talk) 00:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC))
What is the "single Hul-pumne story found in Merriam (1910)" by name and page for the Bay Miwok page? Is it the one about Mt Diablo being center of the world ... ? Goldenrowley ( talk) 05:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- The story is called The Birth of Wek-Wek and the Creation of Man. It can be found, without its page numbers, at http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/dawn_of_the_world/14.html. Merriam spells the group name "Hool-poom'-ne". I do not have a copy of the book, cannot cite pages today. I will get the page numbers next time I go to the Bancroft Library. Middle Fork ( talk) 13:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, I added it... and wow, that is a beautiful creation story. Goldenrowley ( talk) 18:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Goerke and Chief Marin
Regarding the new Chief Marin book by Betty Goerke 2007 - I can only see snippets online. If you have it can you add the name of his parents, spouse and children? Of course I know you are busy with much larger issues. Thanks! :-). Goldenrowley ( talk) 17:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I have made one edit to try to respond to your comments. Feel free to edit or remove the passage on Native American fishing. Much more needs to be done in this entire area, as wikipedia is quite weak on content in this field. My time is beginning to come under pressure for this season and i am not likely to have time to search for citations at this time. Perhaps in a few months i will have some time. good luck in your pursuits to improve content on the subject. In the future please comment on article talk pages so others can follow the thread. i watch the talk pages of all articles that i make substantive edits upon. best regards. Plumpurple ( talk) 17:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, i've put in alphabetical, Tom B ( talk) 01:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi Middle Fork, this is off the topic of Wikipedia but have you ever thought of self-publishing the Indian mission records? It would definitely fill an empty spot in our history. I just self-published my own book (not related to the natives) at lulu.com and was very pleased with their prices and quality and distribution channel. Just a thought! I am a graphic designer by trade (but writing and books are my favorite hobby). Goldenrowley ( talk) 00:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the idea. Problem is more complicated. Tribal and village names were gathered in 1919 by a worker for C. Hart Merriam, published by R.F. Heizer as editor in the 1960s. But by themselves, the lists are almost useless. To really document ethnogeography and ethnohistory of an area takes a very long time, both to analyze data and to document in a defensible way. If I could find time to write on an area that I have not already covered, I do have publishers. I am now working with some UC Merced folks on a possible collaborative wiki, similar to the NYU Pleiades project for ancient Greece. By the way, this kind of stuff would be easier to talk about if I had your email address. You can email me by using the "email this user" button in the toolbox on the left. Again, thanks for sharing the idea.
Middle Fork (
talk) 03:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
- "Useless" is a strong word, when genealogists and descendents may find lists of people very useful. I was thinking of word for word from the Mission records, other Wiktionarians clued me in there's a treasure trove of baptisms, marriages, etc. in the bay area. The one work needed is reading and translation from Spanish to English. Goldenrowley ( talk) 19:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the idea. Problem is more complicated. Tribal and village names were gathered in 1919 by a worker for C. Hart Merriam, published by R.F. Heizer as editor in the 1960s. But by themselves, the lists are almost useless. To really document ethnogeography and ethnohistory of an area takes a very long time, both to analyze data and to document in a defensible way. If I could find time to write on an area that I have not already covered, I do have publishers. I am now working with some UC Merced folks on a possible collaborative wiki, similar to the NYU Pleiades project for ancient Greece. By the way, this kind of stuff would be easier to talk about if I had your email address. You can email me by using the "email this user" button in the toolbox on the left. Again, thanks for sharing the idea.
Middle Fork (
talk) 03:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
|
Hello! I've seen you around on Indigenous languages of California articles ... Would you consider becoming a member of WikiProject Indigenous languages of California, a WikiProject which aims to expand and improve coverage of Indigenous languages of California on Wikipedia? Please feel free to join us. |
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