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Your submission at Articles for creation: Naseh Shaker (September 4)
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Hello, Abdullah Ahmed M!
Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the
Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the
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bonadea
contributions
talk 11:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
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Hi Bonadea, I have removed the deprecated sources and added other sources like his good works, an investigation, and a feature about the death of the last English newspaper in Yemen.
Are these enough or do I need to add more before I resubmit the article? Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 15:43, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Dear Bonadea, Shaker is a notable journalist according to the following Wikipedia standards:
Any biography
•The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times; or
•The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field;[8] or
•The person has an entry in a country's standard national biographical dictionary (e.g. the Dictionary of National Biography).
Therefore, Shaker merit the three conditions above as he was awarded Journalist of the Month by the International Journalists Network. Thanks alot He was nominated for the One World Media New Voice Award 2020.
Third, if you google his name Naseh Shaker in English or Arabic (ناصح شاكر) you will find his name in several established international news outlets like Al-Jazeera, Voice of America, Al-Monitor, TRT World, The New Arab, Declassified, and others as a source or analyst.
Also, if you searched for his name on Wikipedia, you will find several of his works are being used as a source for Wikipedia articles.
Therefore, I hope you will review your decision and approve this article before I spend my time on a new article. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 17:26, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- I'll just address your final comment: instead of spending your time creating new Wikipedia articles, it would be more constructive for you to spend some time on editing existing Wikipedia articles. Creating a new article is the hardest thing for a new editor to do, but it gets much easier once you have edited for a few months, and learnt about reliable sourcing, notability, and other central policies. Regards, -- bonadea contributions talk 20:20, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Naseh Shaker (September 4)
- If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Naseh Shaker and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
- If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
- If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.
Dear S0090, Thank you for your comment. I'm sad to find that you didn't confirm the article as it seems you didn't read well the see the notability guidelines for journalists that Shaker meets very well.
The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors; or
The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique;
My comment: Shaker's work is well cited by other outlets and this was cited in the article. His works are also cited by Wikipedia as sources for his unique coverage of the covid 19 and cooler outbreak in Yemen. He is the only freelance journalist to be granted access to a battle between Yemen's borders and Saudi Arabia.
2-The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series); or
My comment:he has done over 40 features if you look at his bylines on the news outlets he worked for.
3-The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.
My comment: This is for photographers and artists not journalists. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 20:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- Had you read the guideline, it clearly states
Authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals
(emphasis mine) and(c) won significant critical attention
is applicable to journalists (note the "or" in #4) along with the other criteria listed in #1-3. S0091 ( talk) 20:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Please take a look at this article for a Yemeni journalist how it was confirmed and it lacks notability and sources and even the one cited article is written by the person herself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raghda_Gamal Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 20:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (which is frustrating for sure). If you do not think the article meets the notability guidelines, you are welcome to submit an WP:AfD nomination. I agree with you, based on the sources provided in the article, it does not meet notability but one bad article is not justification that another should exist (again, frustrating). S0091 ( talk) 20:42, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I can give hundreds of articles in Arabic about Yemeni journalists like the latest journalist.
Being chosen by International Journalists Network is enough to make him notable at least in his country as he is the only Yemeni journalist chosen by this network. He is also the only Yemeni journalist to be nominated for the One World Media New Voice Award 2020.
I'm sorry to say most Wikipedia editors are not fair and transparent in their decision. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 20:56, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Here is another Yemeni journalist who has an article with two news reports about him but he is not notable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutf_al-Sarary
Can you confirm my article just to be like other Yemeni journalists articles?
Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 21:12, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- This is not a comparison of your draft to other articles. I agree, other crap exists that shouldn't. There are likely hundreds of thousands articles that do not meet the today's notability guidelines for various reasons (guidelines have generally become more strict overtime, things still get by when they shouldn't, etc.). As I have suggested before, you are welcome to nominate them for deletion. For this particular draft, if he received a major award, then that should be included in the article with the appropriate source(s). Currently, I do not see he has received a major award. In addition, you are welcome to resubmit the draft for another reviewer to take a look. However, I do suggest posting a note a draft's talk page stating how Shaker meets the notability guidelines along with the three best sources that support notability (see WP:THREE and WP:42 for guidance). At this point, I will not engage with any further other than to post a comment on the draft to other reviewers if you do post a note on the draft's talk page with WP:THREE letting them know to look to there so they don't miss it. S0091 ( talk) 21:47, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Another Yemeni journalist with no secondary sources and no notability.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasin_al-Hawati
This is to show your decision was not quite right and should leave it to another editor who will approve it. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 21:18, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
What is the major award for journalists in your opinion? I'm sorry to find you speak as an expert in journalism.
One World Media Award is a major word for journalists and only BBC and Al-Jazeera journalists win its awards. To be nominated for this award is a major thing.
Also, International Journalists' Network is a major award to be chosen by this network that is based in Washington D.C.
Sorry to tell you once again your decision was not quite right, you try to be an expert but have zero experience about journalism and its major median awards. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 22:28, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I've submitted it for review with several additions to secondary sources. If you can approve, I would appreciate it. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 22:40, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Hello Abdullah Ahmed M! Your additions to
Draft:Naseh Shaker have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the
public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a
suitably-free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see
Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, there are certain things you must keep in mind about using information from sources to avoid
copyright and
plagiarism issues.
- You can only copy/translate a small amount of a source, and you must mark what you take as a direct quotation with double quotation marks (") and cite the source using an inline citation. You can read about this at Wikipedia:Non-free content in the sections on "text". See also Help:Referencing for beginners, for how to cite sources here.
- Aside from limited quotation, you must put all information in your own words and structure, in proper paraphrase. Following the source's words too closely can create copyright problems, so it is not permitted here; see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. Even when using your own words, you are still, however, asked to cite your sources to verify the information and to demonstrate that the content is not original research.
- We have strict guidelines on the usage of copyrighted images. Fair use images must meet all ten of the non-free content criteria in order to be used in articles, or they will be deleted. To be used on Wikipedia, all other images must be made available under a free and open copyright license that allows commercial and derivative reuse.
- If you own the copyright to the source you want to copy or are a legally designated agent, you may be able to license that text so that we can publish it here. Understand, though, that unlike many other sites, where a person can license their content for use there and retain non-free ownership, that is not possible at Wikipedia. Rather, the release of content must be irrevocable, to the world, into either the public domain (PD) or under a suitably-free and compatible copyright license. Such a release must be done in a verifiable manner, so that the authority of the person purporting to release the copyright is evidenced. See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials.
- Also note that Wikipedia articles may not be copied or translated without attribution. If you want to copy or translate from another Wikipedia project or article, you must follow the copyright attribution steps described at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. See also Help:Translation#License requirements.
It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices, as policy requires that people who persistently do not must be blocked from editing. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to leave me a message on my talk page.
The kind of additions you made, where paragraphs from the sources were added with minimal rephrasing, is inappropriate for two reasons.
- First, because they are copyright violations, as explained above.
- Second, because the draft text was fragmented and not cohesive. Since the paragraphs were taken from different articles, each of them with a different focus, the context was different for each paragraph, but the reader never got the context (example: "Naseh Shaker from SANA'A relayed to Mehr News Agency in Tehran that the Yemeni Supreme Political Council has verified the news that Saleh Ali Al-Sammad has been assassinated" – when did he do this? What is SANA'A – is it Sanaa? Who was Saleh Ali Al-Sammad, what was the significance of his death, and who killed him?) In addition, Naseh Shaker is the topic of the draft, so there is no reason to start paragraph after paragraph with "Freelance journalist Naseh Shaker, who is based in Sana'a...", "Naseh Shaker from SANA'A relayed to Mehr News Agency...", "Yemeni journalist Naseh Shaker told Lobe Log that...", "Naseh Shaker, Journalist and Political Commentator, told Fars News Agency...". Thank you. bonadea contributions talk 13:21, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you Bondadea, I highly appreciate your informative suggestions and links and will apply them in this article and other articles.
Before I edit the removed paragraphs according to your suggestions and Wikipedia instructions, do you think the article needs more sources or the already sources are enough to publish the article?
I want to see my first article published to be inspired to do more.
Are you allowed to publish the article after review or another reviewer will do that? Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 14:07, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
DearBondadea, Can you kindly review my article and see if my additions are good that make the article worth publishing? Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 14:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- [1] Very funny. Don't do it again, an admin may block you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:42, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Yes, per Gråbergs Gråa Sång just above, you can't create a template for users from Yemen by hijacking an existing template for users from Sweden. What your edit here led to was that a lot of Swedish users, who were using the template, suddenly said on their userpage that they were from Yemen..! Please be more careful, and don't make changes to templates at all until you have developed more of a sense for how they're used. Bishonen | tålk 12:32, 14 September 2022 (UTC).
Sorry for that, I've deleted that from the user page. I didn't know that will happen as I'm just a new Wikipedian Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 12:38, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
- Your user page was fine (like this [2]). But when you edited Template:User Sweden to this [3], you changed that userbox for the about 300 people who has it on their userpages. Do you see the difference? I reverted those changes, so that's taken care of. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:46, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
OMG, huge apologies for that, thanks a lot for notifying me, I didn't realize I edited it, I thought I copied the form and changed the name from Sweden to Yemen and pasted that to my user page. I've deleted that from my page to avoid bothering you without even knowing it was edited on the page before you tell me to know.
Here, can you re-edit the page or should I do that to return it to Sweden? Once again, sorry for this. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 12:54, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
- Everything is fine and feel free to add userboxes you like, including Yemen, to User:Abdullah Ahmed M again. Mistakes happen! Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 13:19, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Grabefgs. Stay safe and sound. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 13:35, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
- You too! I guess we Swedes could assume you meant it as a compliment ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 13:55, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps this can be of some use to you: User:Cullen328/Smartphone editing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 14:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Sang, it was a pure mistake I didn't realize it except after your notification.
I have an article, Naseh Shaker, can you please help in reviewing it or give suggestions on how can it be published? Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 18:57, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Dear Grabergs, are you a reviewer? If so, can you review this draft? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Naseh_Shaker Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 17:22, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
My advice to new editors is that it is best to start by making small improvements to existing articles, rather than creating new articles. That way any mistakes you make will be small ones, and you won't have the discouraging experience of repeatedly seeing hours of work deleted. Gradually, you will get to learn how Wikipedia works, and after a while you will know enough about what is acceptable to be able to write whole new articles without fear that they will be deleted. Over the years I have found that editors who start by making small changes to existing articles and work up from there have a far better chance of having a successful time here than those who jump right into creating new articles from the start. JBW ( talk) 20:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
This is a great idea. But I have an experience as a writer regarding editing, sourcing, notability, and copyrights. We just want a reviewer who is experienced in reviewing articles about journalism and journalists. Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 12:57, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Naseh Shaker (September 18)
- If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Naseh Shaker and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
- If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
- If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.
Hi Bonadea, many thanks for the edits and the suggestions to my article and wanted to clarify some points regarding your highlighted suggestions:
You said, "Claims such as "this article was republished in these publications" with references to the re-published article don't fill any function. My comment: I provided this sentence to confirm this investigation is according to the 4th article on the notability of journalists that "The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition.." Therefore this investigation was republished by three other established outlets confirming his work got momentum.
The articles cited by Shaker are reliable sources because they are not self-generated content as the author Shaker is not the publisher; Shaker was working as a journalist for these outlets not writing for his website or blog but on media outlets that have strong editorial standards and Shaker was not speaking about himself in the articles or was writing opinion but writing news reports and used his articles to prove his notability of working with these International outlets as an international journalist.
I think using Twitter as a source is acceptable in some cases like it is not self-published, it doesn't involve claims and there is no doubt of its authenticity. So the links to BBC Persian on Twitter to prove Shaker appeared it is fine as there is no other way to prove he appeared there and the content is not generated by Shaker but by BBC Persian.
Kindly revise my suggestions and let me know if they are fine or if I must remove these sources. In case I removed them, do you think the article can be approved or Shaker doesn't meet the notability? Abdullah Ahmed M ( talk) 12:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Naseh Shaker (September 27)
- If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Naseh Shaker and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
- If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
- If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.