Hello, Thomas Dineen III, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or , and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Outriggr ( talk) 05:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi. You've been editing an article to move periods inside quotations. On Wikipedia there is actually a guideline called "logical quotation". Most of the time, punctuation goes after the ending quote mark, as it was before you changed it. See MOS:LQ for info. Outriggr ( talk) 05:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
P.S. Your copy editing looks very good, so I hope you will continue to edit and improve articles. Outriggr ( talk) 05:17, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Please help me with...
Hi Outriggr, and thanks very much for your critique of my edits. I am completely new to editing Wikipedia and appreciate all suggestions.
I've been reading Wikipedia for eons and have the goal (no rush) of creating a page for an organization to which I belong. I read in various sources that editing existing pages is an excellent way of wading into more creative endeavors on this site.
As for all the changes I made to move periods inside terminal quotation marks, thereby violating standard Wikipedia form, do you recommend I change them all back (especially in the Nietzsche entry)? Imagine I'm not the first person to have made such changes, given that period inside quotations is usually preferred to outside, at least in most reputable U.S. publications (U.K. can prefer outside); but I'll happily familiarize myself with and abide by all established Wikipedia standards from here on in.
Again, I most appreciate your feedback. Is there anything else I ought to do at this stage to improve my skills and increase my chances of posting successful new entry?
Thanks again,
Thomas Dineen III (is this signature okay since I included the Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 01:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)?) Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 01:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Ahhhh...now I see how the signature works! No need to explain further.
Thomas Dineen III (
talk) 01:34, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you again for all this! I fully intend to continue editing, and will actually be doing some tonight. Most appreciate your trying to correct my Nietzsche missteps, and I'll look back to see if I can refine that article further.
Aside from all this, there is an additional issue I wanted to bring up to you, as you've been so helpful. I'm planning to post an entry for the American Jujitsu Association, and want to be as sure as possible that it will be well-received by you and other Wikipedians (and thus survive rather than be deleted!). Is it too early for me to do so? In other words, would I have more credibility in the Wikipedia community if I continued editing existing pieces for awhile, or would it be okay to begin drafting a new entry in the next several days?
One term I've heard is that of "auto-confirmed users," who have gained credibility and have certain privileges that complete newbies don't. Should I wait to gain auto-confirmed user status before drafting my own material? I'm well aware of the need to cite third-party sources when posting new entries. But do shorter pieces stand a better chance of acceptance than longer ones? Is it best to include photos or logos, or perhaps more desirable to go without? Thanks very much again for your time and consideration, Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 02:33, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Most appreciate you help...I hope to start drafting it tomorrow! Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 04:10, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi Outriggr: At long last, I'm ready to submit my new entry for the American Jujitsu Association for review. Is there a way you could have a quick look at it or actually do the review, in light of all the help you've given me in the past weeks? I'd be grateful for any advice you have at this important stage. The only potential problem I'm seeing is that some of my links are red rather than blue, but they all lead to working, verifiable sources. Any explanation? Most appreciated! Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 15:32, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks for the fast response! I'll start looking for third-party sources, and I appreciate your suggestions about formatting. It's very helpful to have you to express ideas to before the "moment of truth" when submitting. Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 13:31, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello again: I've done a good deal of searching and was hoping to get your opinion on the third-party sources I came up with. I have Black Belt magazine references to the American Jujitsu Association dating back to 1983, as well as more recent stories in the Santa Clarita Signal newspaper, the Greensboro News & Record newspaper (1990), and a book called "Before Conflict" (2002). Can you tell me which of these and how many citations of them (one, a few, all?) would be appropriate? Many thanks again, Outriggr! Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 14:16, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Also, it may help to know that I've been using a martial arts organization similar to the AJA as something of an "acceptable Wikipedia template," the All Japan Kendo Federation ( /info/en/?search=All_Japan_Kendo_Federation). Their third-party references include websites and a couple books, so I've been basing the AJA citations on this. Is there anything else they're doing that made them acceptable while you think my AJA draft may be only borderline acceptable? Most appreciated! Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 17:35, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
One last quick issue and I'll stop bugging you today! Here is a link to a page that the founder of the AJA created to highlight being honored by Black Belt magazine as its 2007 Instructor of the Year: http://budoshin.net/BBInstrYr2007.htm
Please note that this page includes the official Black Belt letterhead on the top left as evidence of authenticity. The link to the magazine's archive does not work, however (the publication likely charges a fee to access its past issues), so is the link itself acceptable as a reference? Thank you profusely and sorry I've needed lots of hand-holding lately. Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 18:13, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Yes, sir!
It might help to let you know the background to which I'm comparing this somewhat frustrating process. I work as a securities regulator, and my organization is expected to hold all financial firms to the same standards. So when one firm puts a piece of advertising into the public realm that passes muster with us last month, then another firm attempts the next month to publish similar material, but is criticized by us for doing so, it's our duty to give the latter firm a plausible explanation for the discrepancy.
So when I cite examples to you of material that Wikipedia judges acceptable, such as the All Japan Kendo Federation or Small Circle Jujitsu, and ask how my material compares, forgive me if I sense your own sarcasm in such feedback as: "Surely there are trade publications that refer to the AJA, not just sites like "danzanryuohana.wixsite.com" and "abbreviations.com" and "apollo.io" (apparently similar to LinkedIn, I can't tell)" or "The article has been around for 15 years and barely has independent sources. The couple of book references are better than nothing."
If I took that tone with any of the firms with which I work, they'd just complain and ask to deal with someone else who can offer a clear explanation of how standards are being equitably applied (or maybe not applied); for instance, by taking a few moments to assess the two other entries I sent and showing why they meet notability standards despite having minimal, mostly web-based references (and yet my entry doesn't, in your opinion).
Competent service in my organization involves more than dismissing concerns with the sort of "I'm busy...go figure it out yourself from this lengthy, nebulous material" vibe I'm getting from remarks such as "There is a name and essay for this idea on Wikipedia, "well something else exists on Wikipedia like this, so I must be doing it right: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.)". And then following this up with borderline snide asides such as "I can't help with this article any more than that" and "I've spent a lot of time on this, hoping to help a presumably new editor...don't know what else to tell you."
Somehow, I thought spending time helping those who are trying to satisfy the often confusing, arbitrary standards of Wikipedia was part of your job as an experienced editor, not getting into some "look at all I've done for you...look at the time I've spent..."
This isn't to say that you haven't offered some excellent ideas, for which I've been extravagantly grateful (making your dismissiveness even more perplexing). So if I've exhausted your patience, maybe it would make sense for me to seek out another editor, or do you have an interest in addressing my questions with more of an "I'll help you get this done, given how committed you are to getting this right" attitude rather than, "Poor you...I've done all I can...go take your chances by submitting your sad little entry, then face likely rejection after months of waiting to hear back from us..."
Yes, I realize that the Wikipedia vetting process is different from securities regulation; I'm merely explaining my view of outstanding service and willingness to help those who are working hard to comply with confusing standards in an unfamiliar context.
If what I've written offends you, please accept my sincere thanks for what constructive help you have offered! With a slight change in tone and mutual understanding of expectations, however, I hope our collaboration can still work out. Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 10:05, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
Wow...that seems like some unnecessary melodrama. However, if you're no longer interested in helping me, can you kindly explain how I can go about finding another editor? Most appreciated. Thomas Dineen III ( talk) 03:32, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:American Jujitsu Association, from its old location at User:Thomas Dineen III/sandbox. This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you. - Liance talk/ contribs 17:12, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion, Roy; I got rid of the bold section titles.
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
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1292simon ( talk) 11:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)Hello, Thomas Dineen III!
Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the
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Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top 20% of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
Tol | talk | contribs 22:02, 10 June 2021 (UTC)