List of Azerbaijanis Rules of the game:
Ok, the article is currently unprotected, but I will wait until Sarah's decision before making any changes. I suggest that Sarah allows GM and I a few comments a piece, each making our points, as concisely as possible, and then hopefully Sarah can make a quick decision. I have other issues with the article, but as of now, I will only deal with those three figures.
The three figures in question are: Mahsati, Khaqani, and Nezami Ganjavi.
Now, the name of the article is list of Azerbaijani's, keep this in mind.
I think the above is sufficient, but I will write a little bit more if anything else comes to my mind. Based on the three simple points I listed above, I think its very clear that keeping those three within that article is just simply POV, which goes against Wikipedia's rules of NPOV. Khosrow II 05:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I said that million times before, and will repeat it again. This is not a list of ethnic Azerbaijanis, and the intro clearly says so. This is a list of prominent people from the region regardless of their ethnicity. I don’t know why there should be any argument about this list. It existed almost as long as wikipedia itself, and no one had any problems with it so far.
Exactly, thanks for confirming what I have said above (If you even bothered to read what other people write, which you dont). The region was not called Azerbaijan until 1918, therefore, these figures cannot be called Azerbaijani. Simple as that, thanks for making things a lot easier. Khosrow II 23:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a place to compromise with every person who has an opinion about something. Its a place where articles have to conform to each other (articles and their formats must match) and information has to be accurate. There is a point where a compromise is possible on some issues, and then there are other issues where a compromise is neither necessary nor warranted. Like I said, this is the only article I have seen named after an ethnic group/nationality that considers people 1000 years prior as part of the group. Maybe Heraclius should also be put under list of Turks? If we "compromise" on this issue, then all "List of..." articles on Wiki will become insane. As I said above, Heraclius and other Byzantine Emperors would be put into the List of Turks (according to GM, List of ... articles are not based on nationality nor ethnicity, but on a region where people were born...), Elamite kings would be placed into List of Iranians, and so on... so are you really willing to force yourself into a compromise on such a thing? Not all subjects can be solved as easily with a compromise as it may appear. Khosrow II 00:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
If you are going to put in Iranians in your List of Azerbaijani's, then it will say Iranians next to their names. You dont go to List of Israeli's to find the names of all the famous Jews in the world do you? Iranians belong in the list of Iranians, simple as that, that is why the list of Iranians is in there. The list of Azerbaijani's should only include those from the R. of Azerbaijan. I see no more point in discussing this issue any further either, those three figures should be removed, as well as the Iranians. Khosrow II 02:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
This discussion is ridiculous. We have a List of Iranians for a reason, to have famous people of Iranian origin/citizenship listed. It is ridiculous that Iranians should be listed in the List of Azerbaijani's article, as Azerbaijan is a small nation to the North of Iran (in the Caucasus). Why is it that Iranians are listed? Also, Sarah, have you edited the list of Turks to include Heraclius and other famous Byzantine, Roman, Greek, Hittite, etc... famous figures? If so what was the reaction, did people accept that edit simply because these people were from the region now known as Turkey, and therefore can be classified as Turks? Sarah, this is ridiculous, and a compromise is ridiculous. We have a list of Iranians, so the Iranians will be removed, and those three figures will be removed. This is getting ludicrous. Something this trivial shouldnt even require such a long discussion. Khosrow II 16:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I said that million times before, and will repeat it again. This is not a list of ethnic Azerbaijanis, and the intro clearly says so. This is a list of prominent people from the region regardless of their ethnicity. I don’t know why there should be any argument about this list. It existed almost as long as wikipedia itself, and no one had any problems with it so far. Grandmaster 06:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
To Khosrow: First, the territory was called Azerbaijan prior to 1918, and second, this is a list of prominent people from the territory, which constitutes the Republic of Azerbaijan, regardless of their ethnicity. For the countless time, this is not a list of ethnic Azeris. And also, this is not the first time you make a personal attack on me. The comments like “GM is a POV pusher, as made evident on the other talk page, his credibility is extremely low, and he has a history of disruptive behaviour” are a clear personal attack, which is a violation of Wikipedia:No personal attacks. This is your last warning, next time you make a personal comment about me I will have to report your inappropriate behavior. Please comment on content, not on the contributor, as the rules require. Grandmaster 11:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I really see no point in wasting any more time on this. I think the reasonable compromise would be as Sarah suggested rewriting the intro to say that the list includes people of various ethnicities, who lived in the region before and after the Azerbaijan republic was established in 1918. This should be enough to meet Khosrow’s concerns, because the current version of the list still says that it includes people of various ethnicities who lived in the region. But I don’t think we should add anything next to the names of individual persons, as such lists normally include only the names and professions of persons included. People can refer to the full articles for more details. Grandmaster 07:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
No, they will remain, same as people like Garry Kasparov, Lev Nussimbaum, Lev Landau, Gavril Ilizarov, Max Black, Mstislav Rostropovich, etc. All those people are ethnic Jews, and they are in the list, because they are famous people from Azerbaijan or from what is now Azerbaijan. The list says that it is not based on ethnicity, Azerbaijani just means that they are from this region. Your unwillingness to compromise and insistence on having everything your way makes impossible any dispute resolution. Grandmaster 06:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)