Please let us handle it. Thanks. [[User:Neutrality| Neutrality ( talk)]] 20:04, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I am not an "active contributor" to the George W. Bush article - in fact, I never want to see the damn thing again. Also, mediation requests are not about one particular user's actions. That is what the Arbitration Committee is for. [[User:Neutrality| Neutrality ( talk)]] 20:17, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
All that source information now seems to apply to the Florida Voter File that has been spun off into its own article. Any chance you can delete/archive/generally clean up all that source information that's no longer needed? I'm going to try and condense the talk information to be only about things currently being discussed/disputed soon. Thanks! Rbsteffes 20:28, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I see you said this: "The allegations you made against Gzornenplatz on VV's talk page are completely unsubstantiated" on Neutrality's talk page. Hmmm, so I guess it is true that Neutrality sometimes cries "personal attack" when there is none.... [[User:Rex071404| Rex071404 File:USA.Flag.20x12.gif ]] 03:03, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I don't know what you're referring to. If Bush, then stop reverting my edits. V V 00:49, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
And I have explained to you my different perceptions of the claims of "consensus". Yes, Gz is also reverting. Now quit the posturing, it's just lame. V V 01:08, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Let me butt in here >> Kevin Baas: I disagree with that you are saying to VV. I think there is an entrenched pro-Kerry cabal here which goes out of its' way to slander Bush and make editing difficult for those who don't toe the dem/liberal party line. My observations of the edits over at
George W. Bush lead me to believe that VV has been under inordinate pressure to capitulate to this cabal and yet, in the face of that, he has kept of a high measure of good form. Frankly KB, I am appalled at your heavy handed lambasting of VV. I think you need to learn how to have more plyability (if not flexibility) in dealing with editors who you've targeted as being in a minority. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 22:04, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I do not characterize people as being pro- or anti-, rather I accept info from people from an unbiased critical perspective. Characterizing people, or communities, for that matter, as "cabals", and such conspiracy theoretic - thinking, distorts one's vision of reality, and obstructs one's ability to engage in civil and productive discussion, so I keep away from it as much as possible. I do not target anyone as a minority, I treat every person the same. If Gzornenplatz was conducting himself the same way as VV, I would treat him the same as VV. Kevin Baas | talk 23:56, 2004 Sep 6 (UTC)
Do you have an explanation for why you keep reinstating VeryVerily's archived listing on Wikipedia:Requests for comment? The page has not had any real activity for weeks, so the discussion is quite stale. I recognize that you still have a personal dispute with him, but I don't think there is anything to be gained from that listing at this time. I would suggest you try and work within the mediation process. -- Michael Snow 06:05, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I am willing to mediate the dispute over George W. Bush listed at Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation#VeryVerily_and_Gzornenplatz.2C_Kevin_Baas if I am an acceptable choice.
Please indicate if I am an acceptable choice. If not, please indicate specifically who would be, and we can begin.
Thanks, BCorr| Брайен 14:24, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I strive for staying away from articles where VeryVerily is engaged. My experience is that he fights for his delusions with more jealousy than wit. This last attempt seemed initially a bit more successful, and I carried a hope that both of us should somehow have matured. Well... maybe not. I retract to my personal defence of disengagement.
But I did notice, not without a certain relief, that you and others found at least some of my proposed wordings worth to put back again.
(See also: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship)
regards!
--
Ruhrjung 19:34, 2004 Sep 8 (UTC)
Thanks for calling my attention to the RfC. I was in the process of writing up the incident for submission as evidence in the pending ArbCom proceeding against Rex.
I've tried to be tolerant with him. Now I've completely had it. He's currently under a temporary block from editing three specific Kerry-related pages. Not enough. He should be permanently hard-banned, just expelled completely from the project. I realize that getting to that point will require huge additional amounts of wasted time in pursuing the matter. Not pursuing it will result in huge additional amounts of wasted time dealing with Rex. What a situation. The RfC? Nice idea, but I predict it will have zero effect on Rex's conduct. Frankly, I don't know what to do. JamesMLane 21:12, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
a.k.a.
(my dialog is copied from Rex's talk & indented)
You do know that I deleted those (subject now of RfC) comments from my talk page 1st today and only modified them into increasingly worse taunts when others kept reverting me on my own talk page, yes? If you read the page history and the edits, you will see this quite plainly. And while my actions there today are regrettable, I am really tired of Neutrality butting in on me and being snide to me. He knows the tense state of the dynamic between us and in that context, he was totally off base to be putting snide comments on my talk page and then also restoring them after deletion. What do you say about that? [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 03:53, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Then in light of that, consider what went through my mind when I saw those comments restored again and again. I felt that I was being subjected to tag-team harrasment [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 04:16, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I accept your apologies. I will be less quick to "draw swords" on you in the future. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]]
Here [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 19:05, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I would like taht you show me exactly where that supposed new policy is, because I cannot find it. I believe it would be a major change in policy, given that it would mean that sysops could from now on protect their favorite version; before, protecting sysops had to be neutral and avoid being involved in the conflict. If this has so drastically changed, I would like to see the policy proper and find how this was decided and for which benefits compared to neutrality. I do not think a COP should take sides in a conflict. SweetLittleFluffyThing
Someone has messed with this: "Florida Central Voting File"
The talk history is gone and the page has been moved.
[[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 06:00, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
here [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 20:06, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Please review your (2) answers to anti-Rex polls
here. From my vantage point, your answers conflict. I'd be interested to know what your current views are on this. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 17:23, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for your statement of support. In terms of the "feelings" issue, I have told the ArbCom that the proposed finding of fact "is not even close to a correct statement of what I, as one of the complaining witnesses, felt (or feel)." ( Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Rex071404/Proposed decision#Objection to proposed finding of fact about the complaining witnesses). One concern I have is that I may have gone into too much detail about specific edits (Kerry crewmembers, Nicaragua), so that such basic points get buried. Nevertheless, I felt that the only way to counter the generalized accusation of POV editing was to examine specific edits. JamesMLane 21:22, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I just restored the latest version of anti-American sentiment after the "usual" revertion by VV, including a removal of the category:persecution that imho really wasn't fitting. I guess no-one is happy with the state of that article, and that this has proved an unexpected test of Wikipedia's NPOV dogm. To me it seems as the part on Germany under the heading American arrogance might fit equally well under some other headings, and I'm not sure if this is the preferable location, neither if the length of the text is proportionate to its importance. Maybe a separate page on this crisis in the German-American relations would be a good idea? / Tuomas 06:50, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Accepted. Though I do hope you've looked at the evidence objectively before endorsing. None of those so far signing have a "spotless" record. -- Netoholic @ 18:12, 2004 Sep 17 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voting_File
[[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 19:53, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Do you really think that the Current Events page is appropriate for large articles with in-depth quotes which can just as easily be found in the articles they're linked to? Rick K 18:17, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)
Mateo SA insisted on including this item on the Current events page:
I twice deleted the last two sentences, and he restored them twice, claiming that I was censoring him. I then wrote on his Talk page what I wrote, which you objected to. Please tell me how else I am supposed to interpret what you wrote. Rick K 18:41, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)
I'm curious about the reversion back & forth about Bush popularity. The only significant difference I see between the versions is in the first sentence -- significantly v generally, & compared to Kerry. Are there other substantive disagreements that I'm missing here? Wolfman 14:52, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
KB, this comment of yours: "I am more obstinate than VV" is not something to brag about. Also, your application of this: "No one will get their way by force in this forum" is flawed. The editors who oppose VV at
George W. Bush are in fact refusing to accomodate his views at all. In taking that passive aggressive stance against him, they are not engaging in
Consensus decision making with him. The entrenched editors are indeed getting their way by force. It's a passive agressive force, but it is force nonetheless. In fact, the very word "obstinate" with which you describe yourself does indeed connote a meaning of an unmovable posture. Looking at the laws of thermodynamics, it's clear that you must have tremendous inertia in order to remain so unmoveable. Hopefully you won't try to deny that intertia is a passive force. It is indeed, if it were not, no force would be rquired to overcome it. My observations lead me to believe that you are more interested in defeating VV than reaching agreement with him. This approach, coming from someone as smart as you are, really surprises me. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 20:53, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Properly understood and implimented, consensus editing would entail the majority understanding and subsuming the views of the minority. Anything else is merely mob rule with perfume on it. KB, what you have described to me is a "tit-for-tat" system, not a consensus building one. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 22:31, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
But you miss the larger point: Follow my logic here; If VV's edits were "correct" according to the group, they would not be opposed. It's only his edits which are wrong according to the group, which are opposed. This is precisely why the group itself is wrong. By failing to interpolate VV's ideas into the master version, the group is not appreciating and allowing for the presence of minority views. Only allowing those edits which the majority approves of, is mob rule. Consensus editing means looking for ways to include not finding votes to exclude minority views. I am simply amazed that you insist on fighting over one word such as "significantly vs. generally". Who cares if VV is "wrong". Neither one of these words should really matter. Unless of course the majority is indeed pushing a POV and needs a particular word to make its exact point. KB, I know I am right on this and I don't have a dog in the fight on this article. You really should stretch your mind here and try to hear what I am saying. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 00:53, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
KB: It's true that my system of logic is simplistic compared to yours. It's more like "
Paper, Scissors, Rock". Rock always crushes scissors, etc. In other words, the group mandate to subsume the sincerely offered edits of the minority is always present. If you are not doing this, you are "wrong". And if I am telling you that you should, I am "right". Please don't read too deeply into this. I am only pointing out that the current majority at
George W. Bush is failing in their always present duty to interpolate the opposing views where possible. Frankly, you have no idea if VV is daft or what - so why you oppose his edits based on how he offers them (unilaterally) rather than what the edit is, baffles me. If it's just a word that doesn't matter - let it go - because it obviously matters to him. In fact, were you to let him get his way sometimes, you'd have a stronger justification to oppose those unilateral edits he might make which you can't stand. At it is now, the majority and VV are at loggerheads and that's dumb. Take a cue from the mocking anon IP tweak against me below and go see how I reached consensus with the editorial crew over at
Lawrence v. Texas. Of course, I still had to fight with Neutrality there, but he's the one who chose that path, not me or the others. Rock always crushes scissors. Editors always have a duty to try to let the other guy get his view in too. If you are not doing that, it's not
Consensus decision making - it's mob rule or fratricide. And neither of those are "right". [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 04:00, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
FYI to anon IP (68.6.82.11): I didn't start the revert war at
Lawrence v. Texas, Neutrality did. I was only defending my edit. Those who keep reverting VV's edits at
George W. Bush are doing the same to him as Neutrality did to me - revert unilaterally. More so, Neutrality did not even dialog, but I did. And, there was no "majority" supporting Neutrality's actions against me. Neutrality vs. me is a consequence of him pursuing a personal animus against me across several articles. The VV issue is a matter of a group ganging up on VV. Therefore, please look more carefully and you will see that the issues are not the same. This is especially true because the two words in the battle at GWB have no editorial distinction to speak of. The words in dispute between me and Neutrality were radically different. Also, through dialog and flexiblity with other editors, I was able to reach group agreement and resolved the editing issue. The GWB people vs. VV have been unable to do that. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 03:46, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
68.6.82.11, unless you've been following this in detail as I have, you would not understand. Suffice it to say, the typical pattern is that VV makes a non-agreed-upon edit, the others revert him and a revert war results. [[User:Rex071404|
Rex071404
]] 17:40, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm not sure if you've ever visited the Request for adminship page, but users can vote on which users get to be admins.
One vote going on now is Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/CyborgTosser. I opposed his adminship because he doesn't have as many edits as most people need before getting to be admin (and much of them are things like 150+ edits of his own user page). But more importantly, I haven't seen him interacting much, and certainly have not seen him try to resolve something contentious like a Israel/Palestine page or something like that. Anyhow, if you're interested, give it a look. Ruy Lopez 19:25, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Hey thanks for the images over on the election pages but I believe kerry won washington state so it should be either some shade of blue or white, right?
File:2004 us popular vote2.gif Zen Master 05:27, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Do you and maybe a couple of others working on this article want to meet on say wiki IRC, to discuss it, so we can try and mutually agree a consensus on its progress? FT2 00:19, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
OK, short answer. go to [2] (I use this one because I know it works and the Java code is good). Get onto that IRC network anyhow you can. When you are connected, typing in the command: /server irc.freenode.net will zap you over to wikipedia's IRC, the command /nick Kevin_bass will fix the nick, and the command /join #wikipedia will join the channel.
That link is already included in the external links section at the bottom, perhaps we should create an "Independent Analysis" section on the page somewhere? I increasingly don't like the "list of complaints" section, we should move all that stuff to the relevant sub sections. Zen Master 20:05, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I restored the comment because I thought that, although it was unnecessarily sharp, it wasn't so bad as to call for deletion. Obviously, this is a judgment call. I'll admit my bias is generally in favor of inclusion. In my experience, it's often a choice between letting a comment sit there, as evidence of the caliber of its author's participation, or removing it, and letting the author turn the focus to "censorship" instead of to the original comment.
After putting up with Rex for all these months, though, I certainly understand your feeling about having to waste time on nonsubstantive matters. JamesMLane 20:30, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Are you the guy with archived CNN exit poll data?
I analyzed the Slate data to figure out which states (of 19) had the most significant variation. I'd really like to see (or do) the same analysis on all 49 exit poll states... See dnamining.com/exit
Bill Bruno
Thanks for the comment - more sources on the way! -- RyanFreisling @ 20:07, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Gzornenplatz, Kevin Baas, Shorne, and VeryVerily are banned from reverting any article more than twice in one 24 hour period whilst Arbitration is on-going. Sysops are hereby authorised to enact 24 blocks for violations of this.
See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Gzornenplatz, Kevin Baas, Shorne, VeryVerily. -- mav 11:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
A scattergraph with X axis showing 100-0 on the left, 50/50 middle and 0-100 right, and Y axis showing % growth +/- in voting ration would be intersting FT2 00:41, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)
The 1st graoph is the important one Not the 2nd. the 1st is clearer to me, and the 2nd redundant To make it strike home, add 2 tags "More republican counties" at the left and "more democrat counties" at the right
Oh Map-Meister, would you create a summary graphic akin to the Boston Globe graphic,based similarly on EIDS and the Presidential Election Atlas?
image:BostonGlobe-04ElectionIssues.gif
You would rock, I think it really helps set the context for the article, and we'd avoid more Neto-esque sniping and poaching. -- RyanFreisling @ 18:00, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Want to look at this link? [3]
Or similar links, and see what comes up in Groups, News or Web? I dont have time the next week to review these, I'm kinda hoping you will be able to instead :) FT2 21:33, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
Sorry I missed you. I meant - here is a search with some interesting articles. Skim trhough them, see if any catch your eye, is all. FT2 01:32, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)
i'm down, i'm actually at my girlfriend's house now so I may be around tommorow if you're not on right now. -- kizzle 23:15, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:Cuyahoga.png. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GFDL, or {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, – Quadell ( talk) ( help)[[]] 01:20, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
Here, I'll make this as simple as possible for you: I did not make any allegations against any other user. I said the last VfD was bloated with invalid votes and this gave some people the impression that it was "overwhelming" when it wasn't (particularly since some people don't seem to take into account "merge and redirect" votes). Do not come onto my talk page screaming at me and telling me I'm "wrong" when I haven't done anything! Do not call me a liar and a slanderer when I have not lied or slandered anybody! You do not have that right. You, your actions, and your words are WRONG. They are simple WRONG. How does that feel? Not so good? Didn't think so. Reene ✎ 00:58, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
Actually, saying something like "If you do not, then you are lying and slandering a person, and that is WRONG. Do you hear me? It is just plain WRONG." (excessive use of bold and italics removed) is not merely "asserting". It's being quite aggressive and extremely rude as these comments were based upon absoloutely nothing. Ta Bu made a (what I felt to be) misleading statement on a VfD page; I responded to it (and notice that he's not throwing a fit about my response to his statement, possibly because he (rightly) feels that each and every person deserves a fair say without being harassed). I made no accusations against anybody. Do you hear me? Absoloutely none, zilch, zero. Both you and zen seem to have some huge problem with me though, perhaps because I don't share your POVs and perhaps because I've made it quite clear to zen that I have no interest in speaking to him (since you two seem to be friends or at the very least willing to back eachother up). That said I'd like you to stop posting on my talk page now. Your only interest seems to be to attempt to badger me into doing something and that is not something I will allow you to do. Goodbye. Do not comment on my talk page again on this issue. You've said enough and so have I. Reene ✎ 09:00, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
But again, she doesn't have to do anything. Just look at the other, non recent, outlandish and undefended comments she has made on my user talk page. I am use to her making unsupported claims and then moving on. I do consider the matter dropped without resolution, but now more people know to be on the lookout for unsupported claims by User:Reene. zen master 00:58, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
You really think the programmer Clint's affidavit and story checks out? I am skeptical, if he testifies at the hearing today or tomorrow then ok. zen master 17:00, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for signing my RfC on ExplorerCDT. Would it be correct to say that your only post on his talk page was to post the URL of the Arbitration request, and that prior to this you didn't approach him directly? If so I think you should move your signature to the "Users who endorse" section rather than the "certify" section, otherwise add your evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute (short of the arbitration request, which is normally considered the last step) to the appropriate section. I want to do this right. Thanks again. --[[User:Tony Sidaway| Tony Sidaway| Talk]] 17:20, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Your response on the NPOV tag of the elections controversies page was rude and uncalled for, and contained no argument against what I had stated. Please try to keep your emotions in check and respond to criticism with well thought out responses. It is exactly that kind of action which demonstrates the reason why that article need a NPOV tag. DreamGuy 22:28, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
Red/blue map used in main election article, is this any use in the controversy article?
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:
OR
Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man ( comment| talk)
Hi! Thanks for uploading these images. I notice that they currently don't have any image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know their copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GFDL, or {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks, Kbh3rd 07:06, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Just a quick question: what's the source of Image:2004 us per 1000004.png? And the copyright? - Ta bu shi da yu 12:15, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Mwhahahahaha!
Since you haven't been able to chew on some hard stats for a while, check out Florida's recent inspection, and the interesting mathematical patterns in the deltas: report DU discussion -- RyanFreisling @ 07:02, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
And this
Instead of uploading images like Ohio_recount3.jpg, Ohio_recount4.jpg, etc., you may want to consider reuploading under the same name - this lets people easily see the image's history without having to guess at the names of previous revisions, keeps the namespace clear of numerous orphaned images, and obviates the need to edit any pages that link to it. -- Korath 会話 01:20, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Bravo! -- RyanFreisling @ 23:20, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
If you haven't already, check the Cobb site. They have the election recount reports there.-- RyanFreisling @ 01:26, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Kevin: thanks for your attempt to correct the vandalism at U.S. presidential election, 2004. However, please be aware that copy-and-paste is not the proper way to correct such problems. It is imperative that the page history be preserved, so you could simply have moved the page back where it belonged, rather than pasting the content and making a redirect. It was all sorted out in the end, but there is still a problem by which the page history was duplicated. Please be more cautious in the future. Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 03:04, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
When undoing a page move, please do not cut and paste the article. This leaves the history behind. You should instead use the move function to move it back to the original location. This will work provided the redirect created by the first move has not been edited. -- Cyrius| ✎ 03:05, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)