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talk page for discussing improvements to the
Prophets in the Hebrew Bible template. |
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Judaism Template‑class | |||||||
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Dbiel ( Talk) 01:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
since some of these are prophets only in Judaism see Table of Prophets of Abrahamic Religions I am making a seperate template for the prophets of judaism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 17 May 2007
An authoritative and infallible teacher of God's will.
note: the Kings are generally not considered prophets though many of their utterances were prophetic.
These may be known to have spoken a prophetic utterance, but that in itself may not be enought to carry the title of prophet
I would agree with the segregation of the current list as seen above, but would recommend adding to that list some of the names listed above, but would like to do a bit more research before recommending making any changes. Dbiel ( Talk) 02:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Note: the above links still need to be checked and revised. The above worksheet is still underconstruction and was input by Dbiel ( Talk) 12:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I reverted it for now to the original one, I'm not sure where this is heading though. Epson291 07:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Somewhere along the line the heading "Judaism:" was deleted. It think it was unintentional. It along with Christianity served to break out those entries that were not common between both Judaism and Christianity. I added the heading back in. On a separate note: I liked the smaller original logos better, but that is just my single POV. Dbiel ( Talk) 19:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The talmud doesn't list noah and adam as prophets but later jewish texts list them as prophets -- Java7837 20:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Not sure but i do remember learning that Noah was a prophet from some jewish text-- Java7837 22:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Epson291 there is a certain spot in the talmud where it lists all the prophets but it doesn't mention Bithia she is said in sotah 12b to have prophesied see http://www.halakhah/sotah/sotah_12.html Java7837 20:41, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Epson291 the following are listed as gentile prophets in Baba Bathra 15b Seven prophets prophesied to the heathen, namely, Balaam and his father, Job, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, Zophar the Naamathite, and Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite
http://www.halakhah.com/bababathra/bababathra_15.html#PARTb -- Java7837 21:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The Talmud (Megillah 14a) says that there were 48 Jewish male prophets and 7 female prophets. The Talmud lists the female prophets as: Sarah, Miria, Deborah, Hannah, Abigail, Huldah, and Esther. The Talmud does not list the exact reckoning of the 48 male prophets. The commentaries on the Talmud there scramble to list the 48 prophets. Rabbeinu Chananel offers one method of listing the 48. Rashi quotes in the name of Rabbi Simeon Kayyara another reckoning of the 48, and the Vilna Gaon and Rabbi Joel Sirkes offer textual emendations to version of Rashi which in essence two more reckonings of the 48 prophets. AND Rabbi Jehiel ben Solomon Heilprin offers an alternate version of the quote from Rabbi Simeon Kayyara. So, it's a big issue how to count the 48 prophets, especially because in Rashi's own counting, he only lists 46 and says that there are two more that he doesn't know their identities. The commentators, including Rabbi Abraham Maskileison, Rabbi Yehudah Aryeh Leib Alter, Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Chajes, The Netziv and Rabbi Aryeh Leib ben Asher Gunzberg also try to figure the identities of the two prophets who Rashi left out. Should I bother typing up all the details of this discussion in English? -- רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 22:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Plz type it up in english it is very important-- Java7837 19:21, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
the talmud says thus "They were better than he, because they were prophets, and be, Daniel, was not a prophet." http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/t04/meg02.htm -- Java7837 18:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Can the Judeo-Christian section, and the jewish section lists be alphabetized-- Java7837 18:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Luke 11:50–51) clearly identifies abel as a prophet -- Java7837 20:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
see http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2024:20-22&version=31
and http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2011:50-11:51&version=31
-- Java7837 20:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
They are specifically called prophets so i thought it was important to put them on the template-- Java7837 23:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
http://www.halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_17.html says they prophesied "Moses shall die and Joshua shall bring Israel into the land" and thus are not false prophets like christians consider them to be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 ( talk • contribs) 16:31, 22 July 2007
I have moved Eldad and Medad from the jewish section to the both section per the comment above by Fayenatic london -- Java7837 14:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I added the The seventy elders of Israel per Numbers 11:25 -- Java7837 14:18, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I added Saul per 1 Samuel 10:9-10 -- 129.115.38.13 14:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I added saul's men per 1 Samuel 19:20-- Java7837 14:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
A prophet is defined by someone who is filled with the spirit of G-d and says words in his name the person saying it to a person is not required by this definition-- 66.143.244.177 02:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hebrews 11:32-33 says" 32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,"
Is this saying Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah are prophets?-- Java7837 14:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
In all the arguments someone forgot to actually edit the articles Prophet and Prophecy. I have taken this upon myself, in the process moving the Prophecy article from charismatic Christianity project to A-graded Wikiproject Judaism portal. There is much work to be done since the original article included oracles, and fictional books from 'new age' perspective as well as Greek mythology!
I have not begun on the Prophet article yet, but that also needs an expensive rewrite.
The post "Worksheet for reviewing names of Prophets from the Protestant point of view" on defining prophets is actually NAMING prophets since a definition of a prophet is somewhat longer, and as Rambam zl"l points out, comes in many levels.--
Mrg3105 23:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
see http://www.chabad.org/library/article.htm/aid/8174/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-10.html look for verse 25-- Java7837 04:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
see http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/pol/pol04.htm -- Java7837 19:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Can we color code the prophets i think it doesn't make sense to not list all the prophets in chronological order and color code so that blue means accepted by both religions light blue means accepted by jews but not christians and yellow for accepted by christians but not jews
please tell me if you like this idea i think it would look a lot nicer-- Java7837 21:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
here is another suggestion
-- Java7837 12:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Maybe one of the two above? -- 129.115.38.13 13:11, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I prefer the second one of the two above--
129.115.38.13 13:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
[1] says Joseph is extolled by the Rabbis for being well versed in the Torah, for being a prophet, and for supporting his brothers (Tan., Wayesheb, 20) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 ( talk • contribs) 14:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Is Joseph (Genesis) considered a prophet in Christianity? -- 69.153.67.219 11:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Prophets of Christianity lists Joseph as a prophet--
129.115.102.13 13:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
that article also lists Agur, Gideon, King Nebuchadnezzar (?????????????????)-- 129.115.102.13 13:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I am also suspicious of some the people classified as prophets of christianity on Table of prophets of Abrahamic religions -- 129.115.102.13 13:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The black one looks best on the template. The blue looks funny and #3 is fuzzy, besides being a png and not an svg. -- Avi 03:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
see http://sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl37.htm -- Java7837 19:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
see http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj106.htm and http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/gfp128.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 ( talk • contribs) 19:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/gfp128.htm is also why Gideon is a prophet in Judaism-- Java7837 19:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/t08/t0811.htm speaks of the prophecy of King Lemuel's mother —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Java7837 (
talk •
contribs) 19:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Ten priests and prophets descended from Rahab, upon whom rested the Holy Spirit, because she sent the spies away for three days, knowing that they would be safe after that. The following are the priests and prophets: Jeremiah, Hilkiah, Sariah, Machsia, Hanomel, Salom, Baruch, Neriah, Ezekiel and BoozaMid. Ruth 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.79.238 ( talk) 22:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I added Hanamel (cousin of Jeremiah) see [ [2]] I added Shallum (uncle of Jeremiah) see [ [3]] -- Java7837 13:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
The following are the priests and prophets: Jeremiah, Hilkiah, Sariah, Machsia, Hanomel, Salom, Baruch, Neriah, Ezekiel and BoozaMid. Ruth 2
since booza comes right after ezekiel i believe that means that booza has some relation to ezekiel i think ruth rabbah is referring to buzi the father of ezekiel-- Java7837 13:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
There was a limit to every prophet's inspiration. Beeri, the father of Hosea, only uttered a few words of prophecy, and as they were insufficient to be embodied in a book by themselves they were incorporated within the book of Isaiah, viz., verses 19 and 20 of the 8th chapter of Isaiah. see [ [4]]
one more i am adding http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/9950/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-22.htm see verse 37 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 ( talk • contribs) 14:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Most of these prophets are prophets of Islam too, why not rename the title of the template as to include Islam (so, for example, instead of "Prophets of Judaism and Christianity" say "Prophets of Judaism, Christianity and Islam" or "Prophets of the Abrahamic religions"), or leave out the religions and just say "Prophets of the Tenakh"? I'd prefer the last. Jacob 23:40, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Too much of a hassle have to make all section, prophet in christianity and islam but not judaism section, prophet in christianity and judaism but not islam section, have to make a prophet in islam and judaism but not christianity section, have to make prophet in islam only section, have to make prophet in christianity only section, have to make a prophet in judaism only section also.--
75.43.79.38 17:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
A template for Prophet in Judaism and Islam could be made they have a good number of prophets in common not accepted as prophets in christianity, such as Joseph of Genesis, Eber, Job, and Noah. Though this should only be used on the article Judaism and Islam-- 75.43.79.38 17:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The same can be said of the prophets of Christianity and Islam-- 75.43.79.38 17:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
see 1 chronicles 25:3-- Java7837 01:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Should prophetesses be colored a different color such as yellow?-- Java7837 05:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
see http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=57&letter=R&search=Prophetess#1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I have reorganised this template along the following lines:
Str1977 (talk) 17:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Why are Saul, David and Solomon listed here? To the best of my knowledge, they weren't prophets - in fact, when God needed to give them messages, He used other prophets ( Samuel in the case of Saul, Gad and Nathan in the case of David, and Ahiyah in the case of Solomon. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
"To prevent this action, transclude the template with a parameter" -- this is not helpful, let people categorize the articles that belong in " Category:Prophets of the Hebrew Bible" manually. People will not expect that transclusion of this template will categorize the article this way, and too many things that do not belong in the category are linked from the navbox. -- dab (𒁳) 09:17, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
The heading says "Prophets in the Hebrew Bible", but the arrangement is a mishmash of Hebrew Bible and Old Testament: "major prophets" is not a Hebrew Bible category. So we should either change the heading to "Prophets in the Hebrew Bible / Old Testament" or else change the arrangement from Major prophets and Minor prophets to Later Prophets and Prophets in the Writings. St Anselm ( talk) 16:58, 16 April 2022 (UTC)