Tokusatsu Template‑class

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Film Template‑class

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To the people who have seen the new film please understand that the guidelines for a navbox are different from those for an article for the film or list articles. Navboxes are designed to let readers navigate between existing WikiP articles. With the exception of navboxes for authors and their book or directors and their films (etc) a navbox should not contain redlinks. If an article for these new creatures is ever created then we can add the link but until then the redlink serves no useful purpose. MarnetteD | Talk 19:48, 19 May 2014 (UTC) reply

It's also worth mentioning that these creatures have only appeared in one film, so their role in the story and the details of their design etc can be covered in the Godzilla (2014 film) article. Unless they become recurring characters in the franchise and receive significant media coverage (like Rodan or Mothra), a separate article isn't really appropriate. — Flax5 19:55, 19 May 2014 (UTC) reply

Thanks for the input F. Even though I haven't seen the new film I thought that might be the case. Your note helps to give a more thorough explanation of how things stand at this moment. Between the hidden note that I added to the template and our posts here I hope this will help others in understanding what is going on. MarnetteD | Talk 20:01, 19 May 2014 (UTC) reply

I'd like to point out that these rules may possibly no longer apply? A MUTO article has already been established. We can possibly add the link to the article in the navbox now? Armegon ( talk) 22:08, 1 August 2014 (UTC) reply

This nav box is far too large and is way in over its head going over Godzilla related material. Why for example is Gamera linked as its definitly of the genre, but not the same series. Ditto with several other Toho films that are not in the Godzilla series (i.e: GunHed, Orochi the EIght Headed Giant, etc.). If there is no real suggestion that they are part of the same series, I suggest removing them. Andrzejbanas ( talk) 13:10, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply

I've been confused about the "Related films" section myself. I really don't know what the criteria is. I think it should be limited to films that exist in the same fictional universe. Charles Essie ( talk) 20:28, 18 June 2019 (UTC) reply

couldn't we have an article that lists all Kaiju that appear in the Legendary films? like a "List of Monsterverse kaiju"? I mean the second Godzilla film introduces a number of new kaiju in it. Not too mention the MUTOs from the first one. Visokor ( talk) 14:28, 8 June 2019 (UTC) reply

@ Armegon: Hello but I just don't see the logik in reverting my edits. All these edits were necessary and you can't revert them just because then a template becomes bloated. For example, Ready Player One is a related movie, because it features Mechagodzilla. Shinkalion The Movie features Snow Godzilla, and Matango is related, because Matango later appeared in Godzilla Island. Short films, featuring Godzilla himself, also are necessary. A section "Films featuring a similar creature" is necessary, because many of these films feature creatures that cannot be called Godzilla only because of copyright issues. Remember, this is one of the oldest movie franchises and it is very big. -- Дейноніх ( talk) 08:22, 12 January 2021 (UTC) reply

I don’t see the logic either in your edits. A majority of them, like “films featuring a similar creature” or “short films”, or the “American adaptations”, violate WP:FAN. The template is supposed to be a navigation guide but you’re treating it more like a See Also page or a compilation article. 99% of the short films listed don’t even have articles, so what use are they to a navigation template? There are no separate articles for Gigantis or the US version of King Kong vs. Godzilla, so what’s the point in listing those. Info on those alternate cuts can be found in the articles for Raids Again & Kong vs. Godzilla. We should also reexamine what constitutes as “related” to justify adding content to the template. We can’t list every single film, show, or other media medium just because they include a special appearance by Godzilla. The template is becoming bloated enough as it is. Armegon ( talk) 15:12, 12 January 2021 (UTC) reply

@ Armegon: Here are answers go all your arguments:

1. WP:FAN? Godzilla fandom isn't small.
2. When I came to my native-language Wikipedia there were only several pages about Godzilla. Just because short films don't have articles now not means that mentioning them are unnecessary. Template:Star Wars even includes documentaries and film scores. If I can create Template:Godzilla short films, okay then but they should be mentioned somewhere.
3. I said about "Films featuring a similar creature" already. Many of these films feature creatures that cannot be called Godzilla only because of the copyright issues. You say this section is unnecessary when this template mentions Gamera, Ultraman, Pacific Rim, Guilala and other not very related franchises.
4. If we can't mention just four really very related films (have you even seen them?), then why these "Related films" sections even exist? If War in Space can be here, then why an anime featuring Godzilla himself cannot? Godzilla appeared only in several other films officially.

-- Дейноніх ( talk) 15:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC) reply

You clearly failed to read WP:FAN. Where did you get “small fandom” from?? WP:FAN states “Avoid including information that is trivial and of importance only to a small population of fans.” You added content that is only relevant to you as a fan.

The Star Wars template includes documentaries and film scores because there are individual articles for them. But there are no articles at all for the short films you listed or Gigantis or the US cut of KKVG. So they doesn’t belong in the temp. If all of those short films have articles based on verified & reliable sources, then their inclusion would be warranted. As of now, they fall under WP:FAN.

Your reason for “films featuring a similar creature” falls under WP:OR, WP:SYN, and WP:FAN. Your personal conclusions/opinions are not allowed to be published in Wiki.

Again, this is a navbox. Not a See Also page or a compilation article. So all “related” content’s inclusion should be re-considered. A cameo is not good enough to include in an already bloated navbox. Armegon ( talk) 18:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC) reply

If I could weigh in here, I believe related films definitely merit inclusion in this category but it should be strictly limited to films that share continuity with the main franchise (i.e. other Toho films that feature the same Kaiju found in Godzilla movies and all MonsterVerse entries. Charles Essie ( talk) 19:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC) reply

@ Charles Essie: I think the best solution is creating a "Godzilla-related films" template. And also, almost all related movies are Toho movies. Only Ready Player One wasn't made by Toho, but it still be related (Mechagodzilla appeared in it). -- Дейноніх ( talk) 20:39, 9 February 2021 (UTC) reply

I suppose Ready Player One is "related" but it's not canon. The Toho films exist in a shared universe and those films should be included in this template. Charles Essie ( talk) 19:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC) reply

What do you mean? Not all Toho kaiju films are in the same universe. For example, Rebirth of Mothra trilogy isn't canon to any of the Godzilla films, by it still be related, because it features Mothra. Battle in Outer Space isn't canon to any of the Godzilla films too, but it is an original sequel to The Mysterians (and The Mysterians can be canon to the Heisei films: the source/citation can be found here). Matango isn't canon to any of the Godzilla films, but Matango appeared in Godzilla Island, so it is related. -- Дейноніх ( talk) 14:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC) reply

I support the idea of creating a new template for Godzilla-related films. Armegon ( talk) 04:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Thanks. -- Дейноніх ( talk) 14:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Here it is: Template:Godzilla-related films. Please ask, if you have any questions. I added only necessary films. -- Дейноніх ( talk) 15:03, 13 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Seems the Godzilla related films temple was deleted, now I don't know if it was speedy deleted or AFD. So I think it need to be recreated or similar named templete created. I count at least 21 Toho produced films that are related to Godzilla but don't feature Godzilla:

• Rodan (1956)
• The Mysterians (1957)
• Varan the Unbelievable (1958)
• Battle in Outer Space (1959)
• Mothra (1961)
• Gorath (1962)
• Matango (1963)
• Atragon (1963)
• Dogora (1964)
• Frankenstein Conquers the World (1965)
• The War of the Gargantuas (1966)
• King Kong Escapes (1967)
• Space Amoeba (1970)
• The War in Space (1977)
• Gunhed (1989)
• Rebirth of Mothra (1996)
• Rebirth of Mothra II (1997)
• Rebirth of Mothra III (1998)
• Always: Sunset on Third Street 2 (2007)
• Shinkansen Henkei Robo Shinkalion the Movie: Mirai Kara Kita Shinsoku no ALFA-X (2019)
• Shin Ultraman (2021)

But the actual problem is what is Toho's official stance on those films are they official cannon to the Godzilla films. Or is this just later fan cruft ( WP:FAN) considering that Toho took those monsters they created for those films and crossed them over with Godzilla, without stating one way or another if those films are connected or not. If the later then that would be similar if Marvel Studios had not said anything whether the Avengers films were connected to previous Iron Man films, or Thor films, or Ant-Man films etc and thus MCU didn't exist other than as fan cruft theory. With that said I think there few solutions here. 1) Toho never said these 21 films were officially related to Godzilla so leave them out. 2) Toho said they were official so include them. 3) Remove the American godzilla films and only focus on Toho exclusive produced films and media. (Now I don't know if Toho had any involvement of producing those American films the 1998 film or those MonsterVerse films or if they simply licenced out the characters and nothing else) all non-Toho produced featuring related characters and Godzilla should be relegated to related chatagory in the template. DoctorHver ( talk) 00:57, 7 July 2021 (UTC) reply

It's been agreed to add the related material in a similar way that the Template:Ultraman adds separate categories for TV series, Films, other media, etc. However, I've had issues adding those categories to the Godzilla template. Could someone help? Armegon ( talk) 06:47, 7 July 2021 (UTC) reply

Where was such a thing ever stated in an official capacity? The Japanese equivalent to this template just has Shin Godzilla in its own "no classification" subsection with the anime films in their own "animated movies" subsection. ArguaBILL ( talk) 17:32, 8 January 2023 (UTC) reply

The live-action/animated subsections are under the Reiwa section. I'd rather we get rid of the subsections and have them all listed under one section. Armegon ( talk) 03:20, 9 January 2023 (UTC) reply

My point is that there isn't actually a "Reiwa era" Godzilla series... Shin is its own thing completely and the anime films are their own things. ArguaBILL ( talk) 05:59, 9 January 2023 (UTC) reply

This is the closest we have to official. This was taken at Comic Con 2019, here's another angle. This event was the first time that Toho officially recognized Shin Godzilla and the Polygon trilogy as part of the Reiwa era. You're right. It makes no sense considering the Reiwa era began in 2019 but this seems to be Toho's official stance. Armegon ( talk) 07:29, 9 January 2023 (UTC) reply

I guess it will remain as is for now. ArguaBILL ( talk) 16:33, 9 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Actually, if this is to be taken as an absolute source, the American films should be reclassified as "Hollywood...", although first we'd need to find another photograph to make sure what the full text for them says. ArguaBILL ( talk) 16:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC) reply

According to this webpage without photographic evidence, it says "Hollywood Productions". ArguaBILL ( talk) 16:44, 9 January 2023 (UTC) reply