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can we use this photo in the article? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Religious_toleration_in_Palestine.jpg -- Mohammad Hijjawi ( talk) 18:06, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
One small issue: the "tolerance" link on the page "Volumetric flask" leads to this page, but this page has nothing to do with chemistry or volumetric flasks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willy1106 ( talk • contribs) 21:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
This reads, to me at least, like an essay promoting the concept of toleration. Now people being tolerant is fine by me, but the encyclopedia article on the subject should describe it factually and neutrally, attribute statements where appropriate, and so on, not be a persuasive essay trying to convince people it is a virtue and refute those who claim otherwise. -- Delirium 08:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Delirium. The 'Why Tolerate?' section is not neutral at all. Another problem is in the Popular Misconceptions section, when the article claims that an earlier quotation is misquoted. If it were misquoted, then it should be fixed earlier in the text rather than made reference to afterwards in the same article. All in all, this article is very awkward and needs to be removed or heavily revised. -- Mechanismatic 2:35, 27 June 2006 (PST)
Agreeing. This article is essentially an essay, and does not seek to describe and fairly represent major views on the subject of toleration. In its present state, this article is not responsible intellectual history. ThaddeusFrye
I've gone ahead and merged this page with "Tolerance," which included a more objective account of toleration. I've modified the original article from "tolerance" a bit, and kept the list of references from this article however, which will be a very useful addition to article I've moved from "tolerance."
"Toleration" is, I think the more usual heading under which these issues are discussed, and it really doesn't make sense to have two articles on the same subject, when one is much more of an encyclopedic article and the other is an (interesting) essay that isn't really in the format a Wikipedia article need to be in. Hopefully these changes will be acceptable to most. ThaddeusFrye 23:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I started the "Toleration" page while trying to finish a study program and was hoping that someone would tidy it up until I had time to get back to it. Instead, ThaddeusFrye recently deleted the quasi-totality of "Toleration" and replaced it with the content of "Tolerance" plus my "references and further reading" section. (I should have checked in sooner.)
The resultant article has no references cited in the resultant reference section, as far as I can tell. It does, however, move toward its conceptual ideal of being "free of... insightful efforts." Unfortunately.
My original page was based on the work done by Budziszewski and especially Mendus and Nicholson, all three listed in the reference section. Mendus is at the University of York (UK), as was Nicholson, before he retired. Nicholson was my supervisor for the MA programme in "Political Philosophy (The Idea of Toleration)" at York. Mendus supervised my PhD thesis on another topic in Political Philosophy. The works listed are standard references on the concept and as uncontroversial as you'll find. My page summarized their conclusions, albeit in popular terms. The subsequent edits take no account of this scholarship. (See also Cohen (2004) "What Toleration Is" Ethics 115: 68-95, which I have added to the list.)
Concerning previous edits:
My claim that toleration cannot be based in skepticism is not controversial to scholarly discussions. (If you would like to present a cogent argument otherwise, I can guarantee you that it will be published.)
To the idea that I was promoting toleration, I can only claim that nothing in the original piece comes down one way or another on what should or should not be tolerated. I was treating it as a concept in Political Philosophy. (Mendus and I, for example, would have very different views on what should be tolerated.) Kamadden 22:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Kamadden responds:
Let me begin by owning that my shock at having my piece deleted and replaced with another does not justify the tone of my comments above. I'll try to bring it down a notch.
Now on to substance, beginning with the issue about "insight." When I wrote that the resultant piece moves toward the ideal of toleration as being free of insight, I was quoting from the article as it stands after the deletion of my contribution. The article includes in its description of toleration the criteria that criticism of the tolerated should be "free of... insightful efforts." Perhaps the writer here intended to say that to tolerate is not only to refrain from coercion, but also to refrain from inciting others to coercion? Hard to know. The word “insightful” means “exhibiting insight or clear and deep perception.” (wordnet.princeton.edu) I was making a play of words on this error.
As for the Wiki guidelines, the link cited above says “Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought.” ThaddeusFrye takes that as caution against including insight in this space. I do hope that that is not a proper interpretation of the guidelines.
Concerning skepticism, I do not dispute that skepticism may have played a role in the historical rise of toleration. (By the way, a section or better yet a separate article on the history of toleration would be welcome.) Nor do I dispute that many people today still hold the view that skepticism provides a basis for toleration. What I dispute is that this view has any validity. Here's why.
Although it is a popular idea, and a persistent one, it presents the following conceptual problem. To tolerate is to believe that some other party's action or belief is wrong, morally wrong, yet not to stop it. So toleration requires taking a moral stance both on the the action or belief in question, and also on what is the right thing to do about the perceived wrong. Just to the extent that one takes such a stance, one is not being skeptical about whatever reasons one has for such a stance.
Now that's a knock-down argument. It isn't mine and it isn't new. It's where scholarship on the concept of toleration stands today in political philosophy. Some questions are answered definitively, and I think that this is one.
What people mean when they claim that skepticism is a basis for toleration usually is that “skeptics” in the broad sense have sometimes accommodated a broader view of belief and action than others. But this is not properly speaking “toleration,” because such persons usually don't think that the actions and beliefs that they want to see accommodated are wrong , yet should be allowed. Rather, it is usually because they don't think that the actions and beliefs in question are wrong at all in the appropriate sense.
But again, if ThaddeusFrye or anyone else can provide a cogent argument to the contrary, then I would love to act as a co-author or scribe and get my name on the publication of the idea. Because such a publication would earn its authors a place in the history of toleration as a concept.
On the other hand, on the other hand, perhaps I should simply make suggestions for work yet to be done in the article as it stands and defer to those who have more time for this.
The use of “discrimination” in the definition is ambiguous, given that it concerns “those whose practices or group memberships may be disapproved of.” To disapprove is to have already made one or more kinds of discrimination.
I'd like to see “a more expansive critical theory of political toleration” unpacked. Does this just mean that the author wants to see more toleration, for example? Or is this a reference to the trajectory of the work of someone like Will Kymlicka? Please explain.
There's at least an apparent contradiction in the claims that authoritarianism is intolerant and also that intolerance leads to social instability. For example, it looks to me as if some of the most authoritarian societies in history, and today's world, have also been very stable, sadly. 71.174.61.96 01:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
An external link to a proposal for a park and monument has occasionally been added to and deleted from this page (here is one of the project's several webpages: http://www.tolerancepark.org/ ). I see that there has also been some discussion at the Governor's Island talk page about whether this proposal has enough backing to warrant mentioning in that article (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Governors_Island ). Honestly, I'm not sure whether to leave this link in or not. The web pages linked to do have a pretty amateur appearance, and seem somewhat disorganized.
On the Governor's Island talk page, some have argued that these links promote a "movement" with very little existence outside of Wikipedia and a few web pages. For now however I've given the link the benefit of the doubt (the page I link to implies that the proposal has received support from some prominent individuals, including Hillary Clinton). So instead of deleting this link, I've pointed it to the clearest introduction I could find to the proposal, and clarified the text of the external link itself. If this external reference is indeed significant enough to keep however, a Wikipedia article regarding the sponsoring organization and its membership and officers, would seem to be a good idea. If the organization and movement isn't encyclopedic enough to be in Wikipedia, then I don't think that a link to its webpage should be included either. ThaddeusFrye 01:31, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I can't help but think that tolerance is often used by the politically correct as a form of double speak. I'm not sure if this idea could be tied into the tolerant of the intolerant section. It is my view that the people who claim to be the most tolerant are some of the most intolerant. Some people might find the article interesting:
To me hate is an emotion which we feel when we are not content. People that are always content are easy to control. The politically correct try to control our mind and police our thoughts by persecuting people who they don't agree with in an attempt to control language in a 1984 news speak like fashion. Let us not be fooled in mistaking the PC thought police for the tolerant.
04:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)John Creighton
Tolerance has nothing to do with race, efnic, religeon, belief. But rather it is about repressing rage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.203.166 ( talk) 09:08, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The BBC programme In Our Time presented by Melvyn Bragg has an episode which may be about this subject (if not moving this note to the appropriate talk page earns cookies). You can add it to "External links" by pasting * {{In Our Time|Toleration|p004y288}}. Rich Farmbrough, 03:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC).
Why was this correction of this page removed is it because the person who deleted it is intolerant? See below...
In general usage, tolerance is the ability to accept the existence of something while it is in error.
In Statistics or Mathematics the degree to which the error is an indication the level of tolerance. Tolerance is many times confused with other similar terms.
Mercy and Justice are the root of the confusion over tolerance. Those who are intolerant are usually do not feel they need any mercy. While those who decide to tolerate an error are feeling as though they are merciful. Justice refers to giving what is due because of the correctness of a statement. Some know that 2+2=4 while some may state it is 4.001. There may be a level of toleration to the error of .001, however that is not correct but it is accepted so as to not hurt the feelings of those in error.
-The reason given by Saddhihyama Budda is because it is too scientific and not philisophical. WHAT!!! How intolerant of other people. The truth is that he does not agree with the absolutes of philosophy which is why he is intolerant. Sounds like hypocrisy to me. What's your opinion on the talk page, at least??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.195.38 ( talk) 22:37, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi there! As some guys wrote earlier: This Toleration page has problems. Some sort of section for criticism is needed. My English is not good enough so I can't do it. But read this, Slavoj Zizek has an excellent critic:
The Culturalization of Politics.
Why are today so many problems perceived as problems of intolerance, not as problems of inequality, exploitation, injustice? Why is the proposed remedy tolerance, not emancipation, political struggle, even armed struggle? The immediate answer is the liberal multiculturalist's basic ideological operation: the "culturalization of politics" - political differences, differences conditioned by political inequality, economic exploitation, etc., are naturalized/neutralized into "cultural" differences, different "ways of life," which are something given, something that cannot be overcome, but merely "tolerated." To this, of course, one should answer in Benjaminian terms: from culturalization of politics to politicization of culture. The cause of this culturalization is the retreat, failure, of direct political solutions (Welfare State, socialist projects, etc.).''
www.lacan.com/zizek-inquiry.html
Please, can some one add a critic section?! Tanks! -- Utomsig ( talk) 02:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
The article contains much awkward phrasing, is practically incoherent in places, and appears to contain some irrelevant, unsourced and possibly non-notable material (who is McNair?). It also significantly overlaps a better-written article on Religious Toleration. I will be back to edit and will post specific changes here before making them. Jonathanwallace ( talk) 02:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I popose merging this article with Religious toleration. All examples given in the existing article are of religious toleration and I have added edits to the other article covering each of the writers and incidents mentioned here. I propose to expand the finished article with some coverage of toleration of homosexuality, political groupings and other non-religious instances. The final result will be entitled "Toleration" and "Religious toleration" will redirect to it. I will boldly implement these changes within a few weeks if no-one objects. Jonathanwallace ( talk) 13:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
"There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower." (Surah 2:256) <- Ref: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/002.qmt.html
"Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion."
(Surah 109:1-16)
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/109.qmt.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.11.76.136 ( talk) 05:36, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
The article cites a distinction between "tolerance" and "toleration", citing Merriam-Webster. This distinction is indeed used by some, mostly academics (being an academic myself, I freely admit we often use specialized definitions that are not in popular used). We academics sometimes work to get our definitions into dictionaries, hoping that this will then lead to our usage being more widely adopted.
There are other dictionaries that do not reflect the distinct definitions of these two words as stated by Merriam-Webster. I am concerned that readers of this article may think that the cited definitions are authoritative and in broad use. I prefer that the definitions be qualified as not necessarily reflecting established, broad, popular usage.
What is the best way to handle this in the body of the article? I want to find ways to come to a peaceful consensus on this, not ram my opinion down Wikipedia's throat. Pete unseth ( talk) 17:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
3. The action or practice of tolerating; toleration; the disposition to be patient with or indulgent to the opinions or practices of others; freedom from bigotry or undue severity in judging the conduct of others; forbearance; catholicity of spirit.
1765 R. Lowth Let. to Warburton 13 It admits..of no tolerance, no intercommunity of various sentiments, not the least difference of opinion.
1809–10 S. T. Coleridge Friend (1865) 56 The only true spirit of tolerance consists in our conscientious toleration of each other's intolerance.
1841–8 F. Myers Catholic Thoughts II. iii. §5. 15 It may not accord with the undisciplined instincts of some to associate the tolerance of Imperfection in connection with the instrumentality of Perfection.
1868 A. Helps Realmah (1876) vi. 89 Tolerance, or to use a more Christian word, charity.
1902 C. Lennox James Chalmers (1905) xiv. 70/1 With the same large tolerance he satisfied the curiosity of the astonished black.
The first two "in antiquity" examples (Cyrus and Alexandria) do not seem to be in agreement with the definition at the start of the article because there was no "disapproval" of Jews in either case (at least, none is mentioned and I don't see a reason why there would have been any). More like cases of "live and let live" than toleration. The definition seems to imply that you must first have a bias against, or other issue with, someone before you can be considered "tolerant" towards them. For example after prior religious intolerance in the way illustrated by the third example (where it would be nice to know to what extent the Christians also became more tolerant, or not). AlexFekken ( talk) 03:58, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
In Moby-Dick, or, The Whale, chapter 17, the main character clarifies his view on other religions:
Now, as I before hinted, I have no objection to any person's religion, be it what it may, so long as that person does not kill or insult any other person, because that other person don't believe it also. But when a man's religion becomes really frantic; when it is a positive torment to him; and, in fine, makes this earth of ours an uncomfortable inn to lodge in; then I think it high time to take that individual aside and argue the point with him. (source: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2701/2701-h/2701-h.htm)
Do you think could be added to this page? In what section?
Logos-Aletheia ( talk) 08:06, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Inclusion of the below text in the Islam section of the Article in unwarranted.
However, in Iraq the ISIS has been mass slaughtering people under the name of religion. They have been targeting the minority community of Yazidis where they have been killed on a massive scale because they are considered to be evil worshippers according to the Orthodox Muslims. The Yazidis have been pushed out of houses and into the treacherous Sinjar mountains where basic necessities such as food and water have been scarce. Those that have refused to move from their houses are being viciously hunted down by Islamic State. [1]
Stories of brutality and complete anarchy are almost commonplace. Hundreds of women and young girls have been taken away as brides for jihadis and given the choice of conversion or death, according to the refugees, several of whom said they had received phone calls from their daughters or sisters before their cellphone batteries and credit ran out. Exactly how many women have been caught up in the dragnet is unclear. The Iraqi government claims that 1,500 women have been detained and 500 men executed in the brutal blitz by the extremists through the Sinjar area, where a majority of the residents are Yazidis but some are Christian, Shiite or Sunni Arab. [1] [2]
It is clear that the intolerance of the terrorist group IS, referred to by many as the non-Islamic non-State (NINS) is not representative of the concept of tolerance in Islam. The group and its members have been denounced by all Muslim authorities as not-Muslims and their actions not associated with Islam at all, as such there's no need to include the view/actions of an outcast Muslim extremist group to suggest a position of Islam.—
Sadat (Masssly)❤
Talk☮
C☺
Email☯ 23:31, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh puhlease, muslims are tolerant? How about all this shit going on between shiites an sunnites? Staszek Lem ( talk) 21:15, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
References
Nourishing and sustaining? That is going to need some elaboration, which probably wouldn't fit in the intro anyways. 64.223.125.218 ( talk) 00:13, 22 September 2017 (UTC)John Dee
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The article remains in a pitiful state of disarray, startting for the definition. It seems that this wall of text of the article is abandoned. Staszek Lem ( talk) 21:13, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I have just finished a reworking of History of Christian thought on persecution and tolerance. It's not perfect, but it's better, and I invite anyone interested to take a look and participate there as well. Keep in mind the main context of that one is Christian thought. It connects to this article and I would like to see if I can improve this one as well, so I am going to start with the lead and its definitions. If anyone has a problem with any of it please just say so, and between us I am sure we will come up with a compromise/accomodation of some sort. Right now I am going to "Be Bold!' and just start. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 16:44, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
Bookku ( talk) 03:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
there should be a subtitle of the philosopher voltaire, father of tolerance in the illustration, tolerance is well represented in the illustration Hastengeims ( talk) 16:29, 16 July 2021 (UTC)