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 | Material from Rock was split to The Rock on 28 July 2014. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. The former page's talk page can be accessed at Talk:Rock. |
While it is common for the introductory sentence on a DAB page to specifically mention the primary use (here, Dwayne Johnson), why does this DAB page mention three uses at the top of the page? Unless I have missed something, I don't see anything at MOS:DABPRIMARY or MOS:DABINT which suggests we should have an arbitrary number of higher profile articles at the top of the page, instead of including the links (other than the link to the primary use article) in the appropriate location in the subsequent list. As we see at the discussion at Talk:The Rock, Gibraltar isn't even in the top three in terms of article traffic statistics. My own view is that the page should be organized in the manner contemplated by MOS:DABPRIMARY, rather than segregating the list between what are perceived to be more popular and less popular links, but I wanted to raise the issue here first in case I am missing something. Cheers, -- Skeezix1000 ( talk) 15:37, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
- I think
WP:DABORDER #1 applies here.
Paradoctor (
talk) 16:11, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
- Ah, I am glad I raised it then before going bold.
Skeezix1000 (
talk) 17:27, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
- As long as you are willing to do the D, being B is never wrong.
Paradoctor (
talk) 17:59, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
- As long as you are willing to do the D, being B is never wrong.
- Ah, I am glad I raised it then before going bold.
Skeezix1000 (
talk) 17:27, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
So why is one person nicknamed "The Rock" listed at the top of the page and other persons (some of whom are also pro wrestlers) listed elsewhere? Several titles redirect here as incomplete disambiguations (such as The Rock (wrestler), The Rock (professional wrestling)). A reader coming here from one of those terms may well be confused by the current arrangement. older ≠ wiser 19:02, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- Bkonrad is referring to where I reverted his removal of Dwayne Johnson from the "The Rock commonly refers to:" listings. Bkonrad, I think that Dwayne Johnson should be listed up there because, like Starship.paint, me and others have pointed out, it is very likely that people typing in "The Rock" will be looking for an article on Dwayne Johnson. I think it's obvious that they will more likely be looking for him as opposed to the other people. The #Old history section below shows further commentary about the association of "The Rock" with Dwayne Johnson. Flyer22 ( talk) 19:24, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- Which ones are you referring to? I'd be willing to help if needed.
Flyer22 (
talk) 20:20, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- Most all of the redirects at
listed here. Many of these target the People section.
older ≠
wiser 20:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- Bkonrad and Flyer22, I've gone ahead and redirected The Rock (wrestler), The Rock (Entertainer) (WWE calls wrestling as sports entertainment), The Rock (professional wrestling), The Rock (professional wrestler), The Rock (WWF), The Rock (WWE), The Rock (World Wrestling Federation) to Dwayne Johnson. Don Muraco (fellow WWF wrestler) had nowhere the level the success of Johnson. Also, for Muraco, "The Rock" was a nickname, not a ring name. His ring name was Don Muraco. Seems like only admins can touch The Rock (entertainer). starship .paint ~ regal 05:07, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- Most all of the redirects at
listed here. Many of these target the People section.
older ≠
wiser 20:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- Which ones are you referring to? I'd be willing to help if needed.
Flyer22 (
talk) 20:20, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
The Rock of Gibraltar should not be disambiguated here, its short form is "Rock", not "The Rock". It already has an entry at Rock (disambiguation), and I'm not aware of any evidence that supports disambiguation here. Paradoctor ( talk) 10:08, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- Really? It is always preceded by either the or The:
- Where is it ever referred to as Rock without "the" (capitalized or not)? Do people actually say "I was in Gibraltar, Rock is really a sight to behold?"
- Why does capitalization matter?
- wikt:Rock lists it as either capitalized or not.
- Oxford dictionary shows it as lower case, although listed as the Rock here.
- This is common usage, even if its short form were simply Rock (which I don't see any evidence if it actually being), it is commonly referred (or always referred to) to as the/The Rock. -- kelapstick( bainuu) 14:33, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- "The Rock" is a proper name, and never written as "the Rock".
Rock of Gibraltar, in accord with the sources you listed, consistenly uses "the Rock", as a short form of "the Rock of Gibraltar". For examples where "The Rock" is a proper name rather a name preceded by a definite article, see any of the entries here, or
The Verve. Capitalization matters because it signals the difference between an ordinary definite article and a part of a proper name. You say there are reliable sources using "The Rock" for Gibraltar?
Paradoctor (
talk) 19:01, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- I listed one source, which uses lower case, and Wictionary, which says either is used. It's not a proper name, it's a nickname. It's not nicknamed Rock it's nicknamed the Rock or The Rock and capitalization still doesn't matter because it always uses The, however since capitalization matters to you here are some with a capital T:
- Long nicknamed "The Rock"
- Yet despite being nicknamed "The Rock"
- Gibraltar, nicknamed “The Rock”
- a horse named Rock of Gibraltar nicknamed "The Rock" (not particularly relevant, I know)
- Sources generally refer to it as the Rock but always use the definitive article and often use quotations:
- Having said all this, heaven forbid we actually make a DAB page useful by including an actually valid entry. If someone is looking for Gibraltar (or rock thereof), can't remember the Gibraltar part and types in "The Rock" expecting to find it listed they then having to go to the DAB page Rock, of which it is never (or rarely ever) actually referred to in order to find it. -- kelapstick( bainuu) 20:58, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- I listed one source, which uses lower case, and Wictionary, which says either is used. It's not a proper name, it's a nickname. It's not nicknamed Rock it's nicknamed the Rock or The Rock and capitalization still doesn't matter because it always uses The, however since capitalization matters to you here are some with a capital T:
- "The Rock" is a proper name, and never written as "the Rock".
Rock of Gibraltar, in accord with the sources you listed, consistenly uses "the Rock", as a short form of "the Rock of Gibraltar". For examples where "The Rock" is a proper name rather a name preceded by a definite article, see any of the entries here, or
The Verve. Capitalization matters because it signals the difference between an ordinary definite article and a part of a proper name. You say there are reliable sources using "The Rock" for Gibraltar?
Paradoctor (
talk) 19:01, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- "not a proper name, it's a nickname" Umm, nicknames are proper names. Anyway, we don't need to discuss grammar, usage is what is makes or breaks this.
- Wiktionary is not a reliable source. More to the point, the entry is completely unsourced.
- Of your list, the first one looks like a typo, as the author user "the Rock" twice on the next page.
- The second one by Jeffrey Kennedy doesn't let me search the book content for some reason. Another edition of the same book yields one hit: "In addition to the bar scene, the Rock boasts..."
- The Atlantic Sentinel source looks solid. This leaves us with a single source, which is rather thin. Give me another solid source, and I'll add it here and in the article.
- "heaven forbid" WP:SARCASM and WP:AGF, particularly the latter. Believe it or not, I'm trying to improve this page, ok?
- "someone is looking for Gibraltar" Seeing as "the Rock" is used in the overwhelming majority of cases, I'd expect people to try "Rock" first. Whatever, if you find a second source, this becomes moot.
Paradoctor (
talk) 22:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- Having looked into it more, "the Rock" capitalized or not, is the nickname for Gibraltar as a whole, and not just the actual rock. Example, uncapitalized "the Rock" in quotations. here. This is not a short for of Rock of Gibraltar, it is a blatant nickname for the territory as a whole which is derived from the name of the individual rock itself, Capitalization does not matter because the exact text, in others as well, calls the nickname "the Rock" entirely in quotations.-- kelapstick( bainuu) 11:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
- I already addressed this argument. Dwayne Johnson is never called "the Rock", and neither is any of the other entries here. I didn't find any sources beyond the Sentinel one, and you did not, either. Maybe there is none? That would put the Sentinel in the same category as the use of "The Rock" in the first source you provided, a mistake made by a single author. As I said, give me a second solid source, and all is breezy. As an alternative, show me a reliable source on English grammar that supports your case. Paradoctor ( talk) 12:42, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
See Talk:The Rock/History for old talk page discussion and The Rock/History for old edits. -- BDD ( talk) 23:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
And for anyone wondering why The Rock does not redirect to Dwayne Johnson, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 July 27#The Rock. Flyer22 ( talk) 02:28, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
-
RHaworth, clicking on The Rock/History and Talk:The Rock/History, I see that you deleted
BDD's preservation of that material. I question this decision, since this material should be preserved, whether it's a
WP:Histmerge or saving the content on a
WP:Subpage. Like I recently argued at
Talk:Light bulb (disambiguation), it is not unheard of that the talk page of a deleted page remains intact. Right now, what's left to do regarding the Talk:Light bulb (disambiguation) page is transfer the discussions from there to
Talk:Lamp (electrical component).
Flyer22 (
talk) 04:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- I really don't like to see an orphaned talk page. Could that be moved to Talk:Lamp (electrical component)/Light bulb (disambiguation) or something? It does seem like the history from this page should be preserved. -- BDD ( talk) 12:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- BDD, the plan is to move the discussions at Talk:Light bulb (disambiguation) to Talk:Lamp (electrical component); that's what I noted above. This is suggested in the Update section at Talk:Light bulb (disambiguation), and is why there is a merge tag at the top of that page. Also, what do you think of what I stated about The Rock/History and Talk:The Rock/History? Is that content not preserved? If not, where can it be preserved in a way that directly ties it to The Rock page and prevents it from being re-deleted? Flyer22 ( talk) 12:56, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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Who agrees? ErceÇamurOfficial ( talk) 17:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
- There was a discussion back in 2014 about this and consensus was that Dwayne Johnson was not primary, and I don't think enough has changed since then. Qwaiiplayer ( talk) 15:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
- I would strongly oppose this. InfiniteNexus ( talk) 07:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)